Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, November 22, 2023, 12:58 (157 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I’m Adler in our thinking. So I’m not just a nut in the wilderness.

I listed all the points in your theory which were not covered by Adler. All your answers confirm that you have diverged from Adler, thereby acknowledging that you are the only nut in the wilderness.

DAVID: Adler argued his point from the standpoint of accepting Darwin's evolutionary theory. That made humans entirely improbable and therefore God was needed. I am a step further.

dhw: [..] Adler accepted Darwin. Departure, then, from Adler.

DAVID: Adler used Darwin theory as it made Adler's point.

And you reject Darwin theory, which makes my point that you are not Adler in your thinking.

DAVID: With God as creator what looks like an evolutionary process is God inventing biologic complexity in stages, for HIS own reasons.

dhw: All you and not Adler. But thank you so much for confirming that evolution takes place in stages. Sounds just like Darwin.

DAVID: Nothing new.

But you and Adler do not share your thinking, and now you agree that evolution occurs in stages, as per Darwin, although elsewhere you said that “step-by-step Darwinism was rejected by both of us long ago”. (I never rejected step-by-step, and presumably Adler doesn’t either.)

DAVID: We are part of the surviving 0.1% and a tiny part of the 99.9% extinct. What is not us, past or present, is all the rest of life on Earth.

dhw: Thank you for confirming that we are a tiny part of the 99.9% extinct – namely, the 0.1%. You are quite right that what is not us is all the rest of life, and the 99.9% of extinct forms were also not us or our food, or the ancestors of us and our food. Which is why it is absolute nonsense for you to claim that your God designed all of them as preparation for us and our food. I’m pleased to hear that this is another of your theories Adler does not support.

DAVID: All the Earth is our playground, and anything can be our food. That is what evolution by God has given us.

That does not explain why your God had to design and cull 99.9 out of 100 species that had no connection with us, and clearly Adler does not offer you any support for your nutty theory.

dhw: I’m afraid all this leaves you, to use your own expression, as the only “nut in the wilderness”.

DAVID: Welcome to David's theology.

And goodbye to Mr Adler.

Irreducible complexity

dhw: 3) Design is not synonymous with irreducible complexity! The latter involves a single unit, all of whose parts come into existence simultaneously, are integrated with one another to perform a particular function, and cannot be removed without rendering the unit functionless.

DAVID: Nuts! IC requires design!!!

dhw: But design does not require IC!!! […] if you cut off my leg, it will still carry on walking, will it? (Or if you think the whole body is IC, will the loss of my leg stop me from breathing?) IC refers to a single unit which is complete in itself. See the discussion on the hypothalamus and the female pelvis on the “More miscellany” thread.

DAVID: The body is an integration of many IC parts.

dhw: How can each part be a single unit complete in itself if it cannot function without being integrated with other parts?

DAVID: Consider your kidneys, Totally IC. Totally transplantable. Every organ is totally IC within itself and totally integrated with its body.

If you stuck a pair of kidneys of a table, would they function? Of course they wouldn’t. IC denotes a single unit as defined above. If the spring broke on Behe’s mousetrap, it could be replaced, but that does not make the spring IC! It’s the mousetrap that’s IC. A pair of kidneys will be functionless on their own. (Continued under “More Miscellany, Part One").

DAVID: God create evolution by His designs. It is a total process by design. God's process resembles an evolutionary development.

dhw: How can you call it evolution or even resembling evolution if you insist that all parts of all species are irreducibly complex (i.e. all parts were created simultaneously, as opposed to most being handed down from earlier species) and were designed without precursors?

DAVID: Welcome to evolution by God.

dhw: It’s called Creationism.

DAVID: Is that a dirty word?

Of course not. But it's the opposite of evolution, so you should not keep using the term “evolution” in defence of your dislocated theories.