Return to David's theory of evolution PART TWO (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Saturday, December 18, 2021, 19:02 (235 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Saturday, December 18, 2021, 19:12


DAVID: Once again, you do not accept the limitation in life's system design.

dhw: Of course I accept that the system keeps breaking down! But once again, I do not accept your theory that your all-powerful, all-knowing God is incapable of designing an error-free system, as well as being incapable of correcting many of its “errors”,

Your imagination about your God runs wild. My contention is this is the only working system available for Him to create. My God created all of our reality and it runs very well. God's editing systems clearly shows He knew errors were possible and editing required.

dhw: and I would find it more logical that being all-powerful and all-knowing, he CHOSE to invent the system – not with errors, but with the freedom to diversify into what we consider to be the “good” and the “bad”.

Your so-called God chooses errors (chance mutations) to advance evolution. Who knows what monsters might be created. As below:

DAVID: Invent the God you need to avoid a belief in God. Yours is illogically very human, not God-like.

dhw: How can a theory about an all-powerful God who knows exactly what he wants and proceeds to design it be an attempt to avoid a belief in God? Why is it more human for your God to design exactly what he wanted to design than for him to try – sometimes in vain – to correct the errors he could not avoid in the system he had designed?

DAVID: My concept of your humanized God is very weakly answered by trying to make my God human.

dhw: Please answer my questions.

Your God invention is purely humanized and makes a real conception of God confused

DAVID: You can't read my mind as to how I view Him. I tell you and you purposely misinterpret.

dhw: You have said explicitly that your God “had to” design the system this way as no other system was possible, and you have said explicitly that he took measures to correct some of the errors, but he could not correct them all. What have I misinterpreted?


dhw: I do not question your belief that God – if he exists – chose to evolve all of reality, because I too believe that evolution happened. I only question your rigid belief that he specially designed every life form, natural wonder etc. (he could equally have chosen to give them the means of designing themselves)

If God designed reality, as you accept, your question is patently illogical. The God I see dos not give out secondhand designing abilities requiring His mind.

dhw: I know how ID works, and I have said over and over again that I accept the logic of ID: i.e. I accept that life is too complex to have arisen by chance, and if we believe in design, we should believe there is a designer.

You did not know ID never mentions God, except now in Meyer's book.

dhw: But I have also said again and again that if we accept the idea that life and consciousness are too complex NOT to have been designed, how can we possibly believe that there is a form of life and consciousness infinitely more powerful than our own which was NOT designed?

There logically must be a powerful designing mind.

dhw: The philosophical/theological cop-out is the idea of “first cause”, but that does not answer the question. We might just as well believe in an eternal, impersonal mass of energy and matter which eventually produced the conditions for life and the rudiments of consciousness, which then evolved into all their complexities, as believe in a know-it-all mind that has always simply been there, without a source. I find BOTH hypotheses equally difficult to believe, as I have explained over and over again, and that is why I remain agnostic.

So you conjure up an 'eternal mass of energy and matter' to do the complex designs. Can this mess think up the designs for reality? How? It still takes brilliant mentation. Something cannot appear without cause except a first cause. Something is eternal. Refute that point if you can. How did your magical rudiments of consciousness evolve themselves further? More magic? Totally illogical.

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