DAVID: Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, October 03, 2023, 12:42 (207 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: As usual you have no idea of how to believe in God.

We are not discussing the existence of God, but his possible nature, purposes and methods if he does exist.

DAVID: Once accepting His existence, theistic discussions must be based on experts in the field. I have done just that. When presented your constant response is 'how do they know'? We have agreed no one knows. But their deep philosophical thinking is all we have other than our own thoughts.

So do all your experts agree with you that your God specially designed 99 out of 100 species that had no connection with his one and only purpose, which was to design us and our food, and they have no idea why he would use what you call such a messy, cumbersome and inefficient system? And do all your experts agree that the problem of theodicy, which has been discussed by so-called experts for centuries, has been solved by claiming that good so outweighs evil that there is no problem to discuss?

DAVID: What I present here is an amalgam of readings and my own analysis as a believer. What I present is fact for me. And you sit looking from the outside, uncomfortable with what is presented.

I am uncomfortable with any theory that makes no sense even to the theorist.

DAVID: As for your usual cook-book complaint, it comes from ignoring the starting point that what is here is what God created.

One cannot study a possible God’s nature etc., without accepting the basic premise that what is here is what a possible God created.

DAVID: Evolution happened as a result of God's, unknown to us, decisions. Humans are an amazing, surprising result. Try on that viewpoint. But you can't. You strongly feel humans should not be accepted as exceptional, when we are.

I have always accepted that we are exceptional, but (a) ALL life is amazing and surprising, and (b) our exceptional gifts do not explain why your God would have deliberately designed 99 out of 100 species that had no connection with us if we and our food were his one and only purpose. Stop dodging.

DAVID: Are you afraid of the sin of pride? Your hero, Darwin, touted the white race as best!!!

I have no idea why you think my analysis of your illogical theories comes from fear of pride, or why you have ended your diatribe with a personal attack on Darwin, complete with the racial slur which is hotly disputed by those who have studied Darwin’s writings.

dhw: You have said you believe he enjoys creating, and is selfless and all-powerful, so please answer the two questions:
[…] If you believe that he takes pleasure in creating, how can he possibly do so without a self which is conscious of the enjoyment? If he is all-powerful, how can he possibly be incapable of preventing the evil that apparently he hates?

DAVID: "Self" is consciousness in a material brain. God is immaterial brain.

Now what are you saying? That God is not conscious???

DAVID: His motives are all in His purposes.

His motives ARE his purposes, whatever they may be.

DAVID: God's enjoyment is His alone and may not be equivalent to ours.

Either he enjoys creating or he doesn’t. You say he does. Either he is all-powerful, all-good, all-knowing and selfless, or he isn’t. You say he is.

DAVID: As for evil, it is a necessary byproduct of God's good works. Simply, you can't have one without the other.

So your all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God, who would only create what he wants to create and who hates evil, had no choice but to create evil, which he wanted to create anyway.

DAVID: If you really tried to discover theodicy thought, read it. You won't accept my interpretation of it. The answers are all about proportionality.

Why don’t you read the Wikipedia article on the subject? There you will find a huge range of “answers” ancient and modern, none of which mention “proportionality”.