Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, October 01, 2022, 09:21 (782 days ago) @ David Turell

Nature of God

DAVID: That God is a very different personage does not mean we can't analyze and debate.

dhw: We can’t analyze and debate if you tell us that the words you use, such as “full control”, “enjoyment”, “interest”, might not mean the same to your God as they do to us.

DAVID: We can debate because those are the only words we have!

So when you say your God wants and has full control, enjoys creating, is interested in his creations, probably/possibly has thought patterns and emotions like ours, and is kind, please don’t tell us these words may not mean what you and I think they mean.

DAVID: Whatever God produced, God considered required to continue His evolution of humans. How many times must I show that dead ends were part of ecosystems needed at that stage in evolution.
And:
DAVID: God did what He had to do to create humans. Accept that premise and your confusion will disappear.

dhw: You keep agreeing that the dead ends were part of ecosystems which were required for the life forms that existed at that time but by definition did NOT lead to us and our food. No, I cannot accept that your God “had to” create countless dead ends which had no connection with humans, solely in order to create humans (plus our food). That doesn’t make sense to me or to you (it “makes sense only to God”). Accept that your premise is senseless and therefore either his purpose or his actions must have been different from those you impose on him. Then “your confusion will disappear”.

DAVID: No your confusion continues. At each stage of evolution, the living animals had to have ecosystems for food support. Those ecosystems became ends as evolution moved to new stages.

I said before that I’m suspicious of your use of the word “stage” which suggests a series of consecutive sections leading to a particular conclusion (i.e. sapiens plus food). This is misleading. Yes, every organism that ever lived required food, but the vast majority of organisms and their ecosystems were NOT stages on the way to sapiens plus food. They came to a dead end. And that is why your theory that we and our food were your God's one and only purpose makes no sense to you or to me.

DAVID: God, as designer of evolution, created everything He had to create.

I suggest that he didn’t “have to” create anything. Who forced him? I suggest he created what he wanted to create, and so, if he exists, either he wanted dead ends, which means that humans can’t have been his one and only purpose, or perhaps he set out wanting to create a being with thought patterns etc. like his own, but had to experiment before hitting on the right formula.

DAVID: And you question God, not me, because what I have analyzed is an obvious answer to your questioning. See below:

It is your illogical theories that I question. You have made the following statements about dead ends:

DAVID: Dead ends were part of ecosystems no longer necessary as species become extinct.

Necessary for what? (Repeated over and over again here and under “More Miscellany”.) Ecosystems provide and have always provided the food that enables organisms to survive. See below.

DAVID: Time passes in evolution. Each stage has its requirements.

Agreed, except for the misleading word “stages” – see earlier.

DAVID: When an ecosystem has outlived its usefulness it disappears. A definition of a dead end.

Ecosystems are only “useful” to the organisms that live in them (and which are a part of them – the other part being the environment). An ecosystem disappears when conditions are such that the organisms can no longer survive. A dead end leads nowhere, which is why it is absurd to say that your God designed every dead-end ecosystem as an “absolute requirement” for us and our ecosystems.

DAVID: Past ecosystems fed past animals. With advances to new forms new ecosystems appeared, and old ones faded away as dead ends. Pure evolution at work through time.

dhw: An excellent description. Thank you for at last dropping your illogical theory that all past dead-end ecosystems and animals were individually designed by your God as “absolute requirements” for the individual design of H. sapiens and our ecosystems.

DAVID: I didn't drop God as designing all at every stage.

dhw: You didn’t mention Him, but in any case you have dropped the illogical theory that your God “had to” design every dead end in order to design us and our food. Congratulations on your new insight!

DAVID: Not dropped at all. God designs all parts of all stages on the way to humans.

A totally different statement from the one you made above, which no evolutionist would object to. Your last comment, as usual, fails to mention all the “parts of all stages” which did NOT lead to humans and their food (dead ends), and which make your anthropocentric theory of evolution so illogical that it “makes sense only to God”.