Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, December 21, 2022, 18:13 (485 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Evolution wasn't as messy as you describe, and we are here so it worked.

dhw: It is you who have used the terms “mistakes”, “failed experiments” and “messy”. I simply proposed that experimentation would account for the dead ends.

I do not assume God ever experimented in the sense He did not have a definite goal in sight, us. Dead ends were for former necessary ecosystems, no longer needed as evolution advanced to new forms requiring new ecosystems for food.

Transferred from “More miscellany, Part One”:

dhw: I see no reason to suppose that every new species suddenly appeared globally.

DAVID: I'm sure, agreeing with you, species are local. Lions in Africa, tigers in Asia.

dhw: Thank you. That is why your belief that your God did not control local climate changes (which would have changed local environments) constitutes one crucial factor in evolution which was beyond his control.

DAVID: Only God speciates, so He took local weather into account when necessary.

dhw: You still have him reacting to conditions beyond his control, as opposed to his being “in tight control”.

God is in tight control of continuing speciation which responds with forms adapted to new conditions.

dhw: You keep insisting that your God was in full control, but local environments could change independently of him, and the survival of species for him to work on was also outside his control. It all ties in quite neatly with your theory that many of his experiments failed – the chances of his messy failures would be vastly increased by the interference of circumstances beyond his control. But, still sticking to your theory, fortunately for us, he used his luck to continue experimenting until finally he achieved what you think was his goal.

As you have not commented on this, I feel we have reached agreement, although I must admit in all honesty that of my three theistic alternatives to your original theory of evolution (the others being a God who had new ideas as he went along, and a God who wanted and designed a free-for-all, allowing for possible dabbles), experimentation is the one I like least, precisely because it lays emphasis on your God’s humanized fallibility. The third is my own favourite. But we’ve covered all the ground year after year, so I think we can leave it at that.

DAVID: God never needs luck, and in this scenario responded appropriately when necessary.

dhw: If suitable conditions had never arisen for humans to exist, he could never have “responded appropriately” by designing humans! Responding is reactive, and if his achievement of his goal depended on something outside his control, then clearly he was depending on chance to provide what he needed.

It is generally accepted that the Earth is fine-tuned for life to appear. In your wild suppositions that fine tuning didn't happen is a distortion of the real history, in which God provided fine tuning. He speciated to fit changing environmental requirements, chance never involved. Earth's relatively fixed climate controlling previous previously discussed.