More miscellany Parts One & Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 20:15 (43 days ago) @ dhw

Free-for-all

Biochemical controls: chaperones control proteins

DAVID: With one protein as primary and another as secondary there is much room for mistakes from freely acting proteins. These are mistakes by proteins, not their designer.

dhw: If your house falls down, do you blame the house or the builder? Only if your God designed the system as a free-for-all can you blame the cells and not their designer. So thank you for yet again supporting the free-for-all theory, according to which for example autonomous cancer cells (see below) are able to survive and spread, at the expense of other autonomous cells. We might see this as a reflection of nature’s autonomous dog-eat-dog free-for-all, which you have also confirmed, and in turn a free-for-all in which the very same autonomous organisms (which are composed of autonomous cell communities) design their own methods of survival through adaptations and/or innovations. I’m pleased to see you gradually edging closer to accepting Shapiro’s theory at least as a possible explanation of speciation.

Stop dragging Shapiro into the discussions. We've fully covered Shapiro in the past. His theory remains pure theory and we know of minor cell- editing DNA I've reported.

Cancer

dhw: […] Are you telling us that the cancerous cells try but fail to obey your God, or are you telling us that the cancerous cells find their own means of survival and expansion? Why are they so often successful if they are trying but failing to obey your God’s instructions?

DAVID: They use cell DNA instructions for their own use and do it well, anti-God in action.

dhw: Your God gives cells instructions on how to deal with “mistakes”, and cancer cells use the instructions to create the “mistakes” that God’s instructions were supposed to correct. Don’t you find this a little confusing?

DAVID: No. Cancer is cancer! Very rebellious.

dhw: Even rebellion denotes some form of free will. Cancer cells fight for survival, and what they do is good for them; we only call them bad because they are bad for us. It would appear, then, that your God – if he exists – gave cells the ability to design their own means of survival, just as he gave humans their free will to commit evil.

This is one of the warts that had to exist.

Early galaxies

dhw: You just asked why I couldn’t see the obvious purpose, and now you agree that there is no obvious purpose for me to see. It is very helpful of you to demolish your own viewpoints for me. Thank you.

DAVID: That we have no current knowledge does not mean we can't see current purpose. We are here.

dhw: (a)That doesn’t tell us the “obvious” reason why the universe has to be as it is, and (b) why fly-eating fungi, cancer, floods and famines, murderous bugs etc. are also here, and their obvious purpose is….?

DAVID: In your view to create an entertaining free-for-all form of entertainment for your humanized God.

dhw: There are no obvious purposes. You love the word “entertainment”, but the terms you used, and which I have taken over from you, are “enjoyment” and “interest”.*** You proposed that one possible purpose for your God’s creation of life was that he enjoyed creating, and you confirmed a few days ago that you had no doubt he is watching us with interest. Why do you now think this is unreasonable and “humanizing” – as if any attribute he passes on to us would turn him into a human being?

Your God's desires are human desires. Can't you see that?

*** Another relevant quote for you:
dhw: I’m sure you’ll agree that your God, who you believe is interested in his creations, would find puppets pretty boring.

DAVID: Exactly!

dhw: You clearly had no doubt then that your God wanted to create something that would interest him, as opposed to boring him.

IF He is that interested. We don't know His theoretical level of interest.