More miscellany (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, June 25, 2024, 19:23 (149 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I am following Adler's instructions. My theology is 'true' for me.

dhw: That’s more like it. You are of course free to choose any theory you like, but please stop making such silly remarks as: “You don’t know how to think about God is true theological ways” when what you mean is I don’t know how to think about God in the illogical, self-contradictory, and even mocking way (“imperfect”, “inefficient” designer) you think about him.

My theology tells me God chose an imperfect system perfectly, for His own reasons. With His omniscience, it was the proper correct choice.

Intelligence (and ants)

dhw: All decision-making is based on receiving information in whatever form, processing it, and finding a way to use it. Within a community, communication is another essential feature. Bearing these attributes in mind, do you agree that ants are intelligent?

DAVID: To a small degree.

dhw: So you accept that insects have a degree of autonomous intelligence. The question then becomes one of degree. Where do you draw the line?

DAVID: I said a small degree.

dhw; How small is small? Would you agree that today’s article on chimp self-medication denotes autonomous intelligence?

Yes.

God’s “challenge”

dhw: ...And what might have been his purpose for challenging us?

DAVID: We were given the brains for the challenges.

dhw: Yes, that is your theory, and I am asking WHY you think your God deliberately created all these forms of suffering in order to challenge us. Did he do so, for instance, because he was curious to see how clever we might become? Or because he enjoys watching us suffer? Or was he so powerless that he couldn’t prevent all the suffering and hoped we would be cleverer than him and find ways of ending it?

Back to theodicy. The bad are side effects of the greater good.

Giraffes

QUOTE: Giraffes, it turns out, have solved a problem that kills millions of people every year: high blood pressure.

DAVID: It is an example of extreme adaptability requiring many new mutations to solve complex alterations. […] I would suggest these protective mechanisms are designed.

dhw:[…]. I suggest that none of these fascinating facts are “new mutations”, but are adaptations which were brought about by new requirements. In terms of Shapiro’s theory, this means the different cell communities within the body cooperate intelligently in making the necessary changes. I googled the ancestry:

QUOTE: “Against the odds, over a period of 8 million years the genetic material in small gazelle-like Canthumerycids transformed by natural selection into modern long-legged, long-necked giraffes, Giraffa camelopardalis.”

dhw: Natural selection doesn’t explain the process, but Shapiro’s theory certainly does, whether or not your God designed the ability of cells to respond to new requirements.

DAVID: I'm sure God did it directly.

dhw:Do you mean that God created the giraffe “de novo”, without any ancestors?

No. see: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/giraffes-evolved-long-necks-spurts-180956886

"If you could assemble all these fossil bits and pieces into a short film replaying giraffe evolution, you wouldn’t end up with the smooth transformation of a small-statured herbivore into a towering, checkered browser. There’d be starts and stops and side stories, the ending not being a goal but a happenstance."

Obviously, God is action designing.

Loss of wolves damages trees

DAVID: I've introduced this problem before, but a repeat now and then keeps us reminded that ecosystems are vital. It is a world-wide problem from mistaken human activity.

dhw: A point on which you and I are in total agreement.

Wow!