Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, February 10, 2023, 17:55 (439 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Suddenly a 99.9% failure rate disappears into a concocted theory that God has hands off.

dhw: In two of my theistic alternatives (experimentation and new ideas) his figurative hands are on, but the non-survival of 99% of his designs is neither a mistake nor a failure. (David’s bold) Only the free-for-all is hands off, unless he wants to dabble. Now please tell us why a God who makes mistake after mistake is more godlike than a God who makes no mistakes.(dhw’s bold)

God's 'mistakes' actually progress in any evolutionary system

DAVID: Our disagreement is over definitions. If God designed all of evolution with a 99.9% of non-survival, whose responsibility is it? You just wave it away above (bolded).

DAVID: What don't you understand about a God who can design for any conditions? Severe environments don't stop God from working designs […]

dhw: Your all-powerful, always-in-control God’s inability to control the environment meant that he could only design species that suited the conditions, as opposed to species that would lead to us and our food.

DAVID: Wrong again: our giant bush of food supply is the result of that exact requirement to suit environments.

dhw: Our bush suits OUR environment. You call the 99% “mistakes” because the organisms and their environment had no connection with us and our environment. Only the 1% bridged the gaps.

The dead ends demonstrated what ware necessary were adaptations to evolve onward. They led to the improved 1%

Extremophiles

DAVID: […] What cannot continue to survive sets the conditions necessary for new attempts. Evolution is a progression of simple forms to more complexity of forms. Failure drives the process, per Raup.

dhw: Species go extinct because they cannot survive new conditions. They don’t “set” the new conditions! Nor, according to you, does your God. And extinct forms do not evolve into new forms. Only the one per cent of survivors can evolve into new forms. See birds below.

DAVID: By 'setting' I mean show the deficiencies that need correction.

dhw: Back you go to your blundering God, correcting his mistakes by making the next set of mistakes. He never learns, does he? Though you think he knew in advance that he’d make all these blunders, which apparently means he is all-powerful, and always in control.

You need to stop and review how anything evolves, Dead ends a normal part of it.

dhw: Is every extremophile an absolute requirement for us and our food? Or one of your God's 99% mistakes?

DAVID: Not worth answering, but as you know I think all animals and plants fit into very important ecosystems that provide our food.

dhw: The usual slithery non-answer.

Once again you deny the importance of our major ecosystems. After all, its just food.

Conflict

dhw: I do indeed think that mistakes, failed experiments, mess, lack of control, dependence on luck etc. make your God look bad, but that is your “personal invention”.

DAVID: I'm just presenting evolution in a different factual light as it relates to God the designer.

dhw: I’m surprised that you see your all-powerful God and his designs in such a bad light.

It is your 'bad light' interpretation, but then again you like wimpy Gods.