Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, August 18, 2023, 11:38 (253 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Past ecosystems were for the past, present ecosystems are for the present.

DAVID: The bold is correct.

dhw: So please stop pretending that this means your God individually created every past ecosystem in order to “support human’s existence”.

DAVID: The current need of the eight-plus billion human population requires all ecosystems for food. Those systems were developed in the past to become the present systems. Pure logic.

dhw: Even current ecosystems are disappearing thanks to our mismanagement, but we are still here. And as usual, you skate over the fact that only 1% of past ecosystems evolved into present ecosystems. […] Pure logic? You cannot find a single reason why he would use what you call this "messy, cumbersome, inefficient" method of fulfilling the purpose you impose on him. Stop dodging.

DAVID: The pure logic is God chose to evolve us, but we can't know His reasons. Both you and I have guessed at many, so your 'cannot find a reason' is false and you know it.

And still you go on dodging! If God exists, then clearly he chose evolution as his method of producing every life form that ever existed, including humans. That is a logical hypothesis. What is not logical is your theory that his one and only purpose was to design us and our ecosystems/food supply, and therefore he chose to design 99 out of 100 species and ecosystems/food supplies that had no connection with us. You cannot find a single reason why he would use such a “messy, cumbersome and inefficient” (your terms) method to achieve the goal you impose on him. It is illogical, and you know it.

DAVID: Your form of God also evolved us by ‘experimenting and discovering’ […] which no religion would recognize.
And:
DAVID: My ‘mirror of current theology is based on ‘the attributes of God’ and the teaching of ID.

dhw: Please tell us which religion or list of God’s attributes includes your theory that your all-powerful God was powerless to prevent the diseases caused by his otherwise good bacteria and viruses, and that your all-good, all-knowing God knew in advance that by giving humans free will, he would be producing war, murder, rape etc. but still went ahead with his invention.[/b]

DAVID: All of the theodicy essays I found use the Dayenu approach, which I have presented here.

dhw: The word “Dayenu” means “it would have been enough” (Wikipedia), and it thanks God for all the nice things he has done for the Jews. I have no idea how any essay on theodicy, which questions how/why an all-good God can have created evil, can confine itself to thanking God for all the nice things he has done for the Jews. Isn’t it time you used your own brain to discuss the issue instead of pretending that other people have solved it by ignoring it?

DAVID: I extract Dayenu from the theodicy studies. My own brain is very active in developing theories that are my individual originating theology, based on others' thinking and mine.

So tell us which religion supports your theodicy theory bolded above, as well as the theory that your God had to design 99 out of 100 species irrelevant to his purpose. Otherwise, please stop moaning that my alternatives would not be recognized by any religion.

dhw: Why do you describe a God who wants to create “novelties”, i.e. life forms which never existed before, and succeeds in doing so, as “clueless”?

DAVID: Anyone who experiments is looking for an answer to his question. Experimentation finds his answer. An experimenting God is clueless just like my human example.

dhw: If you look for an answer and find it, you can hardly be called “clueless”!

DAVID: This comment is totally clueless. The point is at the beginning of experimentation the end point is unknown!! The experimenting God is clueless at the beginning, while you are touting His endpoint! My form of God doesn't experiment.

There are different types of experiment: one tries different methods to achieve a goal, and another looks to discover what will happen if….Both forms would explain the higgledy-piggledy course of evolution theistically (as would a free-for-all), with your God successfully producing the vast variety of species and ecosystems we know from life’s history. I know your God doesn’t experiment. Instead he deliberately, messily, cumbersomely, inefficiently and cluelessly designs 99 out of 100 species and ecosystems which have no connection with his purpose, and you can’t think of a single reason why he would do so.