Return to David's theory of evolution PART 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, June 20, 2022, 08:53 (675 days ago) @ David Turell

Ediacaran-Cambrian transition: 410,000 years

dhw: You continue to ignore all the arguments that explain why a complete fossil record is highly unlikely, and you have not explained why you think it is time and not generations that produce species.

DAVID: Those arguments are no more than logical wishful guesses. I've given you an opinion from an archeologist you refuse to accept, that indicates after 170 years of studying the Camrbian Gap nothing important will be found to remove the gap.

dhw: This may well be true, and if it is, I’ve offered you a list of reasons why there may be no more fossils, but you dismiss them all because the list was written in 2019!

DAVID: And three years later we find the Cambrain gap is 410,000 years in size based on existing fossil studies. What would the 2019 writers say now!

The 2019 writers offer a list of reasons why there may be no more fossils. Nothing to do with the length of the Cambrian gap. Stop dodging.

DAVID: I know your approach. Brilliant cell committees do it all on their own, but God might have helped them. Another waffle theory.

dhw: So what is your theory? That God looks into his crystal ball and designs all the innovations BEFORE they are needed. What’s more, he designed them all 3.8 billion years ago in the form of a book of instructions to be passed on to all cells, so they could pick the right ones at the right time. Or alternatively, he kept consulting his crystal ball, and every time he saw new conditions coming, he popped in to make the changes before the new conditions arrived. I’ll leave you to find the appropriate description of such a theory.

DAVID: Your theory: making silly fun and games of a needed designer God.

Once again: you have stated repeatedly that there are two ways in which your God might have designed every species, econiche, lifestyle and natural wonder (e.g. the weaverbird’s nest) as an “absolute requirement” for humans and our food: preprogramming the first cells 3.8 billion years ago with every single one of these, or direct dabbling for every single one. I don’t know why you think your God’s possible design of intelligent entities that respond to changing conditions - by adapting and inventing - sounds sillier than that.

How did sex pop up?

DAVID: Thank you for clearly supporting my biochemcial theory of evolution. With that basis, new forms can appear. Chromatin came as new biochemistry.

dhw: Chromatin is “as old as eukaryotes themselves”. The point is that we have several examples of fundamental elements being present long before the fully developed organs appear.

DAVID: Exactly my point: necessary biochemicals appear before new forms.

dhw: So why did you say chromatin came as new biochemistry?

Not answered.

dhw: The newness consisted in new use of existing materials, which supports the theory of common descent, and common descent contradicts the theory of speciation without precursors.

DAVID: You are stating exactly my thoughts. Old biochemistry leads to new biochemistry, evolution in available molecules, which allows for new uses by new organs in new forms appearing.

Then we are in agreement, and we can dismiss the idea that your God designed new species that had no precursors.

Human membrane pore

DAVID: So simple cell committees understand design for future use?

dhw: Why do you keep repeating this nonsense and making me repeat: CELLS DO NOT UNDERSTAND DESIGN FOR FUTURE USE! They respond to present requirements or opportunities. Once the response works, then of course it will be used in the future. The immune system provides a perfect example of the process!

DAVID: […] Of course cells can't design for the future, but new species appear fully formed to handle living.

dhw: They could hardly appear if they never lived! What is your point? Mine is that the cells of existing species respond to new conditions, and change accordingly by adapting or innovating (or they die). They do not look into a crystal ball and change in advance.

DAVID: Of course they can't. Only a designer God can.

And so back we go to your theory of your God’s 3.8 billion-year-old programme for the whole of evolution, or alternatively his dabbling with one generation of organisms (yes, he’d have dabbled with existing organisms, not with passing time!) to make the changes that would meet requirements which did not yet exist. I wonder what they did with themselves before they could use the changes. Imagine those poor prewhales sitting on their flippers waiting for water to swim in.

Mud

DAVID: what is key to understanding this evolved process on Earth, is that this is the way God works. Everything is evolved from a beginning: the universe from the Big Bang, the Earth from its beginining, and life from its beginning. dhw has never understood this pattern in God's works, and complains about how God evolved humans, instead of direct creation.

Your usual dodge. Dhw is a firm believer in evolution. Dhw does not complain about humans evolving in stages. Dhw complains about a collection of theories which when combined are so illogical that their inventor cannot explain them and tells us that they “make sense only to God”.