Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, December 04, 2022, 12:03 (501 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: As you raise your questions, I am allowed to rethink what I present as my views of how God must work. You demand more specificity. So: whatever happens is Gods works is the start. All failed dead ends are part of His planned design of evolving humans.

dhw: We can certainly agree that if God exists, whatever happens is the result of his work. But once again you are hiding behind vague generalisations. For instance, whatever you, I, or anyone else does is “what happens”, but even you will not claim that what you say, do, write, think is “God’s works”. You have already told us that “similar to climate these ocean currents ran on their own, not under God’s intimate controls,” so not God’s work. And you have viruses and bacteria causing untold harm because they wander off in directions your God did not intend them to go (= not God’s work).

DAVID: You are again mixing up creation of organisms and what they do. God creates them per His plan, but after that they are free to act as they will, just as we do. Just as with Earth's God-given climate patterns. Please compartmentalize the different concepts in accusing God of lack of control.

I am not accusing him of anything. I am questioning the logic of your theories about him. Your statement was “whatever happens is God’s works”. You never cease to tell us that in order to achieve his one and only purpose of designing us and our food, your God needed to design all life styles (e.g. bird migration), all strategies (the opossum playing dead), even birds’ nests (weaverbird) and ant cities, bridges, agriculture, plus murderous viruses and bacteria, plus the countless extinct dead ends that had no connection with his one and only goal. When I ask you to explain why you think your God created all the “works” that had no connection with his goal, you tell me to go and ask him, which means you can’t make sense of your own theory. […]

DAVID: […] I do know why!!! Whatever happens in creation, God did it!!! No need to dig further, for unknowable specificity. Your attitude is if I can't supply it must be wrong. Insane!!

“God did it” is not a reason why God would have done it - and it remains a moot question whether he "did" it all anyway!

An aquatic dinosaur

DAVID: interesting in that it was only partially adapted to aquatic life. It may have evolved by trying to dive for food. But only if starving on land. More likely a God design. […]

dhw: […] Your first theory makes complete sense: organisms evolve when conditions require some kind of change. It is the effort to perform new activities that results in these changes. Your second theory as always begs the question why your God would specially design a half-in, half-out aquatic dinosaur if all he wanted to design was us and our food.

DAVID: You always forget the starting principal: Everything that ever appeared was God's work. As usual you imply God did it wrong. You know better.

As regards “everything that appeared” or "happened”, see above. Also as above, I do not imply that God “did it wrong”. That would apply to your own theory when you talk about necessary failures, accidents etc. I keep stating explicitly that my criticisms are of your illogical theories, not of God (if he exists)!

Reading God’s mind

dhw: Do you or do you not agree that the only being who knows what God is like (if he exists) is God himself?

Yes. But a concept of an all-powerful God, as presented in the Bible is the God we MUST discuss. You forget that by presenting human Gods. Stick with the one described.
And under “early fire use”:
DAVID: Your God would be more efficient is your implication. But what must be discussed is the God described in the Bible. Your imagined non-Biblical Gods are beside the point.

I’m amazed at your sudden devotion to the Bible. This will certainly win you favour with many Jews and Christians, but has absolutely no relevance to the illogicality of your non-biblical theory of evolution, and it does not answer any of the questions which you tell us only your God can answer. In any case, we do discuss the concept of an all-powerful God as presented in the Bible and elsewhere. And we discuss lots of other attributes, like your own certainty that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, that he is “kindly”, and that maybe he created us because he wants us to admire his work. You are also certain that the only reason why he created all the failed dead ends was they were necessary for him to be able to design us because “all evolutions advance from failed experiments”, and this somehow confirms his all-powerfulness, because his failed experiments are not failures or experiments. Did you find this in the Bible? Thank you for agreeing that the only being who knows what God is like (if he exists) is God himself. Your personal speculations are not “gospel”.