Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 18:25 (415 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: We assume He could create us outright since He made direct creation of life.

dhw: You have omitted your belief that we and our foods are descended from Cambrian species that had no precursors. This leads you to the absurd theory that your God’s one and only purpose from the very beginning was us and our food, and therefore he designed countless species that did not lead to us or our food.

Did God evolve us or not? We are discussing my belief in God a designer. I view evolution as showing purpose. You are stuck with Darwin's random process wher e everything is survival.

DAVID: But His history is quite clear: Big Bang, then evolve the universe; start life, then evolve humans; start the Earth, add life and have them evolve the Earth. The conclusion is God prefers to evolve His creations.

dhw: I have never questioned that all these things evolved, including us and our food, and if God exists, then of course he created the process by which the universe, Earth and life evolved. But evolution does not mean your God’s only purpose was us and our food,

The only way to interpret God's intent is to evaluate His works. You give lip service to how unusual and special we are. Pual Davies doesn't view that way, recorded here in the past. And of course, Adler's well known proof of God.

DAVID: I've described evolution as a messy process. Since we are here God managed it successfully. I do not end up with your description of a bumbling God as a result. I see him as a brilliant designer handling a cumbersome method.

dhw: But your “brilliant” designer designed the cumbersome method and you have acknowledged that he is responsible for the mess! You make a mockery of language as well as of your God. In my language, a brilliant designer is not one who invents a method which results in his designing 99% of mistakes and failed experiments in his messy attempts to produce a species he could have produced directly if he’d wanted to.

I've purposely overstated how messy evolution of life actually is. But God used it. Successfully, we are here.

DAVID: My previous comments have driven you to defend a 'pure' faultless God, a strange position for an agnostic.

dhw: Your comments are so full of contradictions that you are forced to acknowledge that you have no idea why your God would have invented such a faulty method, and I should go and ask him why he did it.

How can I know God's reasoning? I am not His righthand assistant. I cannot interpret beyond assigning importance to aspects of His works. Humans are enormously important.

DAVID: I understand your invention of brilliant-designer cells who do the work for Him placing Him at a position of secondhand blame so His dainty fingers are clean. Evolution is a methodology of creation we and God both use. Its use in advancing lifeform's complexity is cumbersome and must require death.

dhw: Why the “dainty fingers” sarcasm? Once again you are smearing your God with dirty fingers. I have given you three possible interpretations of evolution which show him doing precisely what he wants to do, without mistakes, failed experiments etc., and your only reason for rejecting them is that you believe your blunderer is less human and more godlike than my fault-free versions. Why have you brought in death? We know that every individual organism dies, but that has never been our subject (though we can discuss it if you want to). Individual deaths have nothing to do with the creation or extinction of species.

Once again going to your usual extremes only to defend my God!! I love it.