David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections II (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, October 09, 2020, 13:56 (1504 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: What we see is the mechanism God chose to create humans. We happen to be here. God obviously chose to create humans, and we appeared by evolution. Simple logic that you persist in muddling up, by trying to give God humanizing thoughts.

dhw: We don’t know what mechanism God chose to create ANY species! You offer two mechanisms: either a 3.8-billion-year-old programme for every species, econiche, natural wonder etc. in the history of life, or direct dabbling. Every multicellular organism “appeared by evolution”, but by evolution you mean God directly designed every one, presumably preprogramming or dabbling each speciation out of an existing species. And if he directly designed them ALL, he “obviously chose” to design them ALL, and they ALL appeared by evolution.

DAVID: We see evolution. That is fact. My proposal is simply that God is the creator of evolution. You find all sorts of reasons why you do not like that conclusion, based on your humanized version of a possible God. We will never solve this difference.

As an agnostic, I have always acknowledged the possibility that there is a God who is creator of evolution, and ALL my alternative explanations of evolution have allowed for that. You know very well that my objection to your explanation is not to God being the creator, but to your insistence that he directly designed every extinct life form, econiche, natural wonder etc., and that all of them were part of his goal of evolving [= directly designing] humans because all the extinct forms provided food for one another, although the vast bush of extinct life “plays no role in current time.” My objection to this sequence of non sequiturs has nothing to do with my so-called “humanized” alternatives. Attacking these provides no defence of your own theory.

Your post continues with further attempts to divert attention away from the list of non sequiturs, but I’m reluctant to ignore some of the distortions involved.

DAVID: I cannot know God's logic, nor can you. Again you want direct creation of humans, but that is not what we factually know. You are arguing with my view that God created history. He made human a final wanted goal.

I do not “want” direct creation of humans. It is you who insist that your God directly created EVERY life form, and that is why it makes no sense to say he directly created ALL of them if he only wanted to directly create ONE (plus food supply). I do not argue with the possibility that God created history. We are arguing about your interpretation of HOW he created history. I don’t even have a problem with the logic behind the individual premise that humans were “a final wanted goal”. You know perfectly well that it is the COMBINATION of your premises that doesn’t make sense.

DAVID: Your take is so strange to me we will never find common ground for this discussion. No one knows just how all-powerful God might be. It is important to avoid Bible descriptions at the start. I have established for me there is a designer as a starting point and building from that view I develop a viewpoint about God, just a name for the designer.

dhw: It’s interesting to hear that you are doubtful about how all-powerful God might be. That obviously opens the door to some of my alternative explanations. But I am not using Biblical descriptions, I am not questioning the logic of your belief in a designer called God, and am merely questioning your insistence on the combined set of beliefs which do not add up to a coherent whole.

DAVID: Only for you with your invention of God's personality. You agree God can do whatever He wants in creation and then deny the logic of the facts of evolution. All the steps to create humans have to happen first!!! We know we evolved from apes. I believe God did it. I see nothing to debate in my proposal.

It is you who deny the logic of the facts of evolution. Yes, we know we evolved from apes. But the facts of evolution are that EVERY life form evolved from earlier life forms. And so once more: It is NOT a “fact of evolution” that your God directly designed EVERY life form, or that EVERY life form was “part of the goal of evolving [= directly designing] humans”. You are quite right that “we cannot know God’s logic”, but my attack on your own illogicality has nothing to do with my “invention of God’s personality” and is not a denial of the facts of evolution. The fact (we must be careful here, though – Tony would not agree) that we evolved from apes does not mean that your God directly designed every life form in history, or that every life form in history was designed to enable us to evolve from apes, or that your God designed every stage from bacteria to apes and from apes to sapiens although his only goal was to design H. sapiens plus food supply.