Back to David's theory of evolution: God's errors (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 07:52 (83 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Your total confusion about God involves when God acts and when He doesn't. During evolution prior to our appearance He was in total control of evolution and all advancing changes. He allowed beneficial mistakes as stated above, which shows that even at a time of total control molecular mistakes could happen. Now we are in charge to handle molecular mistakes, but God is many times more powerful than we are. I have no idea why He is totally letting us handle it.(dhw’s bold)

dhw: Bearing in mind your comment that, and God “allows beneficial mistakes”, we now have a God who does NOT design the changes that cause evolution. He only allows them. But if he allows them, the inference is that he is able to stop them, whereas you have repeatedly told us that “he couldn’t stop the molecular errors”. And these contradictions are supposed to indicate "total control"! Furthermore, if God couldn’t stop the molecular errors prior to our arrival but we can stop them now (please remember that we have inherited the errors – they didn’t just start with us), we clearly know more about handling them than he did. I don't think the “total confusion” is mine.

DAVID: Your analysis of what I presented shows your total lack of understanding. The molecular errors we are discussing are not during evolution, but errors we see in current living organisms. Errors that influenced evolutionary direction of course were allowed if God approved of them. Please concentrate on current errors.

How can I when you tell us that “prior to our appearance…he allowed beneficial mistakes…which shows that even at a time of total control (i.e. before sapiens) molecular mistakes could happen", and indeed according to you “a mutational error favoured by natural selection or by God may have arranged for our human evolution”. The errors have always been present in the system! Various articles examine various current errors, but it is you who have told us that prior to our existence, your God could not control or stop the errors. According to you, he is not doing anything now – not even trying in vain to control the errors with his backups. It’s in our hands. Why must I confine your God’s doings to a time (i.e. the present) when he is not doing anything? Look at your next comments!

DAVID: Again, God in total control during evolution, correcting all errors and allowing ones that created beneficial changes[/b].

It is you who are telling us about “during evolution”, and here you tell us that he corrects all errors, although elsewhere he can’t control or stop the errors, but he can allow the beneficial ones – which suggests he COULD stop them if he wanted to, even though he COULDN’T stop the errors, as in your next remark:

DAVID: Horror of all horrors, He couldn't control the mistakes, but could allow the good ones and correct the others. Now, for His own reasons, which I do not know or want to guess at, we are in charge.

It could hardly be clearer that the horrors you are referring to are past errors.

dhw: Now you have your pre-sapiens God in total control, “correcting all errors” (although you tell us he couldn’t stop or control them and even provided backups which often didn’t work), and “allowing” the beneficial ones instead of directly designing (your normal theory) all the changes that lead to speciation. If we take into account your statement that “these biological accidents are chance events, accidents not a designers fault”, we have what to you really is the horror of horrors: pure Darwinism – evolution by means of random mutations and natural selection. Your God's role is simply to allow it to happen.

DAVID: Still your total confusion about what I present. The subject is current errors and the fact that God knew molecules might make mistaken responses to directive stimuli and designed backup corrective mechanisms. In evolution obviously God was in total control of DNA code and its mutational changes.

No, the subject is not current errors, and your last sentence contradicts all the now bolded statements of yours relating to evolution. I’m sorry, but the total confusion is yours.

DAVID: There are no God errors, but God's recognition of potential molecular errors. Here is one example of corrective actions:
https://phys.org/news/2020-07-cell-scientists-uncover-rna-modifying-enzyme.html

DAVID: A clear example of molecular error is misfolding (note my bold) and this backup mechanism is present to correct the errors, which leads to my conclusion, God recognized the probability and put corrective mechanisms in place in functioning cells.

The error was already present in bacteria and viruses, and although he couldn’t stop it or control it, apparently he was able to correct it, although he is unable to correct the errors he is unable to correct, and as far as current errors are concerned, he is no longer involved and leaves it to us to correct the errors he could not stop or control. I can’t help wondering if perhaps he simply gave cells the intelligence to deal with problems as they arose – and sometimes they succeed and sometimes they don’t.


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