Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Monday, August 03, 2020, 17:33 (361 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I wonder how many believers believe that your God could but couldn’t control the errors in his system....[followed by several other examples of blatant contradictions!]

DAVID: The bold is your problem. Let's concentrate on it. God knew those errors could happen because the system runs on molecules reacting, folding, etc. in order to provide proper functions at just the right time in a split-second production system. The molecules ARE FREE TO MAKE MISTAKES. [dhw: Your own emphasis in capitals.]

dhw: This subject is dealt with on the errors thread, but I have repeated your last remark here because it is crucial to our discussion on evolution. You wrote under “Human evolution” on July 25: “A mutational error favoured by natural selection or by God may have arranged for our human evolution.” If mutational errors can be beneficial, and your God left them free to make such “errors”, you are clearly allowing an alternative to your concept of direct design of species: namely, that your God left evolutionary changes to the molecules themselves. In your own words: “God may allow beneficial ones”. Not “design” but “allow”. I can then offer you a choice: either these changes were random (Darwin) and your God allowed them to happen, or the cells themselves deliberately organized them with their (perhaps God-given) intelligence (Shapiro). Which would you regard as more likely?

Please see today's error entry to clarify your thinking. Mistakes in DNA are random, and we know they exist. Intracellular working molecules can also make mistakes. In evolution God could certainly decide to leave a beneficial mistake while correcting all he did not like or want. We do the correcting now, when we can. Shapiro theory of no value.


Under “Nature’s Wonders”:
DAVID: Loggerhead turtles travel the world and spread species of life that cannot move on their own:

QUOTE: "...hitchhikers, known as epibionts, show up on hosts from crabs to crocodiles. But according to a May 2020 paper by Ingels, Valdes, dos Santos and others, loggerheads in particular carry many, many more of them than previously thought—often tens of thousands of individuals each. These represent a diversity of species and life stages, and turn a well-populated turtle into “a little metropolis floating in the ocean,” says Ingels.

DAVID: this shows how interconnected the whole vast bush of life actually is and how necessary it all is to each and every branch. dhw doesn't seem to understand it had to be built over time as part of the goal of creating humans.

dhw: Thank you for another wonderful wonder. What a shame you’ve spoilt this post with your comment. The “whole vast bush of life” reaches back 3.8 billion years, 99% of it being extinct. Of course creatures within any econiche are connected, but it is patently absurd to claim that turtles carrying epibionts show that every single econiche in the history of life “had to be built as part of the goal of creating humans”. Like all past and present life forms, loggerheads show that econiches are full of interconnections. That's all they show.

Thank you for finally recognizing the interconnection of econiches and then presenting your usual confused and limited understanding of their importance.

DAVID (under “Parasites and the bush”: Parasites are a necessary part of the bush of life:

QUOTE: "But only 4% of known parasites can infect humans, and the majority actually serve critical ecological roles, like regulating wildlife that might otherwise balloon in population size and become pests.

DAVID:: same old story. All parts of the bush count as very important and required at all phases of evolution. dhw should take notice.

dhw: I have never disputed the fact that all parts of an econiche are important for the organisms that live in that econiche. But there were millions of econiches long, long, long before sapiens came on the scene! The undisputed fact that econiches contain interconnected organisms does not explain why your God would have directly designed millions of non-human and extinct econiches if his only purpose was to directly design sapiens and his econiches. Your capacity for dodging the question I keep asking you seems to be endless.

Your capacity for not following my logic is endless. God runs reality and history therefore tells us what He did, but not why. When you accept God is in change, perhaps you will understand.

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