Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, August 20, 2020, 10:57 (342 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You have always said God in control could choose to evolve humans. your problem, not mine.

dhw: Your problem is that while choosing to evolve (= directly design) humans - who were his one and only goal - your all-powerful God also apparently chose to evolve (directly design) millions of other life forms etc. which had nothing to do with humans. You have no idea why he would choose such a method to achieve such a purpose.

DAVID: I am not illogical. I have to explain how humans arrived though the process of evolution in a reality run by God. You have to provide a reasonable explanation other than mine. And all you provide are theories that use humanized versions of God.

You have to explain the logic behind the theory bolded above. You can’t, and that is why your interpretation of your God’s purpose does not fit in with your interpretation of the history of evolution. You have always agreed that my theistic alternatives provide a logical link between divine purpose and evolutionary history, and your silly “humanizing” argument directly contradicts your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns and other attributes similar to ours. And so each of these logical theories has a basis which could be true.

DAVID: The reason we continue to debate is that we each have a very different version of God's personality, and therefore, we describe very different approaches to the issue. As before, my view of God is not yours, and therefore you find my God doing illogical actions. […]

God’s personality has nothing to do with it, since you refuse even to contemplate what his personal attributes might be. The reason we continue to debate is your refusal to face up to the illogicality bolded above. You can reject my various alternatives as often as you like, but it still won’t solve the insoluble problem you have set yourself with your own theory.

DAVID: Evolution is historical fact. I fully believe God is in charge of creating reality. Therefore He evolved humans. Nothing illogical except your interpretations of my thinking.

dhw: Again you have forgotten that therefore (assuming he exists) he also evolved millions of other life forms etc. that had nothing to do with humans. I have not “interpreted” your thinking, but have reproduced it over and over again in your own words. Or do you now reject your opinion of a few days ago that the millions of preceding and extinct life forms and their food supplies which had nothing to do with humans were “part of the goal of evolving humans” – your reasoning being that all of those past econiches “are the necessary food supply for an enormous number of species and humans”b – as if the food supply for species that died out millions of years ago was necessary for a species that did not yet exist!

DAVID: Total usual mishmash of distorted reasoning. The bolds are totally logical for me. The red sentence describes how evolution from bacteria works!!! It is an exact description. You keep muddling along, while never accepting my very purposeful God who knows exactly what He is doing.

Of course the red describes how evolution works. And that is why it makes nonsense of the claim that an all-powerful God only wanted to create ONE life form plus its food supply! In all my theories, a very purposeful God knows exactly what he is doing. But his purpose and method are not necessarily the purpose and method you impose on him.

Under Evolution: genomic evidence of preplanning:
Fins to hands:

QUOTE: "An international team of biologists based at the University of Konstanz (Germany)... has determined how limbs have evolved from fins using embryos of the Australian lungfish (Neoceratodus forsteri) for their study."

DAVID: All courses in comparative anatomy show that from fish onward, we all have the same design pattern in the skeleton. As might be supposed muscle patterns are similar as are digestive organs. […] This study clearly shows earlier organisms are the templates for future more advanced organisms. This fits with my theory God created evolution by preplanning in the genome. Also reinforced by Behe's finding advances are created by deletion of earlier DNA.

These patterns are a clear confirmation of common descent. I agree that they fit in with your theory of preplanning. They also fit in with the theory that throughout evolution, intelligent cells have created or reorganized their own structures in response to changing environmental conditions. Just as fins were turned into legs (and eventually arms and hands) when aquatic organisms came onto dry land, legs turned into fins when land organisms (e.g. whales) went to live in the sea. This means that not only do the basic patterns stem from what was needed to cope with environmental conditions, but so too do all the subsequent variations. No pre-planning required – just the mechanism for adaptation to and exploitation of changing conditions.

On an autobiographical note, it is exciting for me to see Konstanz University mentioned here! I was one of the very first generation of lecturers there, when it was a tiny institution which began life (temporarily, of course) in a large hotel! It is now regarded as one of the "elite" universities in Germany. (No, I am not claiming credit for that!)

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