Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, July 06, 2020, 12:05 (1599 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You wrote: “The 'errors' are accidents not planned.” But he designed the whole system! You have even said that he knew the unplanned, accidental errors were part of his design, and so he provided safeguards, though some of these didn’t work either! The silliness lies in your God deliberately designing “errors” to kill old people but calling the same errors “accidental” when they kill young people.

DAVID: Molecular errors in living biology are just that, much as you try to contrive if differently.

Of course errors are errors. But you insist that your God designed “living biology”, and you tie yourself in intellectual knots, telling us that he deliberately designed the “errors” to weaken and kill old people, but it was impossible for him to build the system without accidental “errors” that would weaken or kill all of us, and so he tried to provide safeguards, but some of those didn’t work.

DAVID: Of course God may follow a different pattern of logical thought than you or I do. You are arguing from your human viewpoint as to why He chose his method of creating humans. His choice is from His desires, not logic, but his choice of evolution must be logical in his mind. We cannot know the reasons for His desired goals, although you constantly want to guess!

dhw: So why do you keep saying “we and He use the same logical methods”? Of course his method of creating humans and all the other mainly extinct life forms you keep forgetting about would have been from his desires and would have been logical in his mind. That is why I have offered you several logical “guesses”. Only yours is illogical, but you can’t bear to think it might be wrong!

DAVID: We use the same logical methods of thought. The logic behind His choices is unknown to us.

How can a “logical method of thought” be the same as ours if we can’t understand the logic?

DAVID: You still don't allow the thought God had the right to choose his method of creation. […] Must I remind you, your approach to your intentions are not God's, as much as you try to humanize Him.

dhw: Of course God chose his method of creation! “Must I remind you” that your approach to his intentions and methods is illogical (hence the dodging), whereas my alternatives – which you agree are logical – are dismissed on the grounds that they humanize a God who you have told us probably has thought patterns similar to our own.

DAVID: Of course they are humanizing. I don't need to list the examples. You are saying again, Adler and i are illogical.

I did not say they weren’t humanizing. I merely reminded you of your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns similar to ours, so that is no reason to reject a logical explanation of his actions. I have no objection to the logical arguments you say Adler puts forward for the uniqueness of humans and for the existence of God. What is illogical in your theory – the bit which you always try to dodge and which you tell us Adler does not deal with – is the claim that an all-powerful God has only one purpose, to create H. sapiens, but spends 3.X billion years specially designing millions of now extinct non-human life forms before then specially designing all our ancestors before finally specially designing us.

Transferred from “brain expansion”:
dhw: Now I seem to stand alone in suggesting that he knew exactly what he wanted and did it!

DAVID: I love it! I fully agree with the bold!!! And He is quite all-powerful. After all, He started the universe, evolved it to create a massive Milky Way which then, under His guidance produced an Earth perfect for life, which He then invented, warts and all!!! Fuss over the warts. He is still God. Look what He has produced. But no, all you look for are the negatives, which allow you to deny Him. There are so many positives which 'prove His existence beyond a reasonable doubt' (Adler).

dhw: What is “quite” all-powerful? Again you dodge the implications of your own guesses, and especially the “warts”. I have never “denied” God. I present the case for and against in order to explain my agnosticism. And our disagreement has nothing to do with the existence of God but concerns only your illogical theories concerning his possible nature, purpose and methods. Please stop dodging!

DAVID: The 'implications of my thinking are based on Adler's discussions of God's creation of us. I'm only dodging your illogical approaches to a God you constantly humanize.

See above for your clinging to Adler as a way of dodging the illogicality of your theory and for your “humanizing” dodge. You are currently telling us about his errors, his not knowing all the consequences of his actions, and his lack of control. Apparently you regard this as less human and more purposeful than the hypothesis I present of a God who knows exactly what he wants and produces it.