Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, August 21, 2020, 18:20 (1553 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Friday, August 21, 2020, 18:27

DAVID: You've repeated that you find my logic illogical, but your complaints are illogical to me.

dhw: Then once and for all, please explain why an all-powerful God, whose one and only purpose is to design H. sapiens plus food supply, designs millions of now extinct non-human life forms and their food supplies that have no connection with H. sapiens, before eventually designing the only life form plus food supply that he actually wants to design. And please bear in mind that your concept of evolution entails the direct design of all species, i.e. by preprogramming or dabbling. And please don’t tell us that all the millions of extinct non-human life forms etc. were necessary to feed humans who didn’t even arrive until millions of years later.

You've left out my usual answer. God chose to evolve us. As God, he certainly had the right to choose to evolve any thing and everything. (You've previously agreed) My clear and logical reasoning comes by examples of His works: created the universe and evolving it; created the Earth and evolved it by creating life and evolving it. (Life has been accepted as helping to evolve Earth's conditions). In my view of God, God evolves all aspects of reality. It is your problem, not mine. End of discussion.

DAVID: We were His goal and all of evolution creating the bush is required. You don't accept we were the goal.

dhw: Same problem: why were the millions of long extinct non-human life forms, food supplies, econiches, life styles, natural wonders etc. “required” in order to produce one species and its food supplies? I have offered you two theistic theories which accept us either as THE goal (experimentation), or as A goal (we only occurred to your God late on in the process). Other theories entail a different goal. You have accepted all of these theories as logical, theistic explanations of life’s history. See above for your self-contradicting comments about “humanization”.

Same humanizing versions of God. I agree as human reasoning they are logical, but my view of God's personality is not yours and in my view He doesn't ever think/reason as you do. Since my interpretation of who God is as a personality differs so much from your's, we will never agree. I follow Adler: God is a person like no other person.

Under Evolution: genomic evidence of preplanning:

Fins to hands:
https://phys.org/news/2020-08-lungfish-fins-reveal-limbs-evolved.html

QUOTE: "An international team of biologists based at the University of Konstanz (Germany)... has determined how limbs have evolved from fins using embryos of the Australian lungfish (Neoceratodus forsteri) for their study."

DAVID: All courses in comparative anatomy show that from fish onward, we all have the same design pattern in the skeleton. As might be supposed muscle patterns are similar as are digestive organs. […] This study clearly shows earlier organisms are the templates for future more advanced organisms. This fits with my theory God created evolution by preplanning in the genome. Also reinforced by Behe's finding advances are created by deletion of earlier DNA.

dhw: These patterns are a clear confirmation of common descent. I agree that they fit in with your theory of preplanning. They also fit in with the theory that throughout evolution, intelligent cells have created or reorganized their own structures in response to changing environmental conditions. Just as fins were turned into legs (and eventually arms and hands) when aquatic organisms came onto dry land, legs turned into fins when land organisms (e.g. whales) went to live in the sea. This means that not only do the basic patterns stem from what was needed to cope with environmental conditions, but so too do all the subsequent variations. No pre-planning required – just the mechanism for adaptation to and exploitation of changing conditions.

DAVID: Yes, common descent, but Godless in your description.

dhw: Must I always repeat that cellular intelligence may have been invented by your God?

And I'll repeat the appearance of intelligence is shown in cells reactions following God's instructions. How do you explain cells errors during evolution, which we know occur? We also know most mistakes make for bad mutations, and very few are beneficial. And we also know through Behe, most advances are precise DNA deletions. Factor these facts into your answer, as I do.