Back to David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, August 08, 2020, 11:14 (439 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Living biochemistry tells us that the current biological system is riddled with “errors”, because so many things can go wrong. We know that SOME of these errors can sometimes be corrected by the cells themselves, and sometimes by human intervention. You have told us that God has played no part in the process since sapiens became established. In the course of evolution, you tell us that your God had no control over the mistakes, but let some through and destroyed the others.

DAVID: Note the bold in your first paragraph. It is absolutely false in my theory.

I’m sorry, but if it is absolutely false, please explain what you mean by such statements as: “If he couldn’t stop the molecular errors, then they are not his fault”; “He was correcting as much as he could”; “…high speed reactions can have errors God can’t control”; “I am the one willing to show that God is not all-powerful and all-knowing and He can’t stop molecular errors in a system He created”. You have also given us a concrete past and present example of an uncontrollable error:

DAVID: The article shows cancer has always been around; this example from a dinosaur:
DAVID: cancers occur from copy errors in dividing cells. They have been around a long time. This is something God could not stop as He coded DNA for evolution.

But according to you he could destroy any errors he didn’t like. So not only could he not stop the cancer error (although he is apparently in full control), but he must have liked it too.

DAVID: Without picking apart your error filled prose I again tell you what I think about God during evolution. I am using what we know about current errors applied to how God handled DNA during evolution 1) God recognizes, as we do, molecules make errors, as shown by the corrective systems in place. 2) if God can destroy DNA molecular errors He doesn't want and keep others that help His purposes, He is in full control, after the fact of error.

1) Still with my theist hat on, I’m sure he would recognize the so-called errors. since he designed the system that produced them. 2) What pre-sapiens errors are you talking about? If he destroyed them before we arrived, how do you know about them? And why did you say He was correcting as much as He could? That means there were some he couldn’t correct, so he was not “in full control after the fact of error”. The cancer example illustrates the confusion.

DAVID: 3) this is not Darwinism chance mutations arriving under no control. God is completely controlling what goes forward in evolution, no matter how it appeared. Can't you see God doesn't need to design what He likes even if it a chance arrival?

Then there is no difference between what God does (he selects the chance mutations he regards as favourable) and natural selection (Nature selects the chance mutations that are favourable). This is totally different from your previous theory that your God directly designed every species (not to mention lifestyles and natural wonders).

DAVID: 4) as a result I see God designing 99.99% of all evolutionary DNA. If God codes DNA He can keep or destroy whatever He wants to do.

If God exists, then he designed 100% of the system that generates life, reproduction and evolution. The system contains errors. You tell us that those errors “are not his fault” but he “allows” the beneficial ones to survive. That does not = he directly designed every species. (You say that even humans may have evolved from a "mutational error".)

DAVID: I wiped out the rest of your discussion as a repetitive error filled understanding of my view of God handling evolutionary DNA all based on today's facts.

You have also failed to respond to the following contradiction from the other post: “I accept and have always known God has certain limits in control over high speed molecular reactions. I still view Him as all-powerful.” A God who has certain limits in control is not in total control and is not all-powerful. Previously you wrote: “I am the one willing to show that God is not all-powerful and all knowing and he can’t stop molecular errors in a system he created.” One moment you proudly announce that he is not all-powerful, and the next moment you still view him as all-powerful.

DAVID: But the fact still remains protein molecules, even under strict orders, make mistakes. And you know that. What happens next is what is important to think about. I told you what I propose is how God reacts.

Yes, I know that protein molecules and the rest of the life-giving system make what you call mistakes. And I have proposed that your God created precisely the system that he wanted to create, including the “mistakes”: namely a system in which cells (I prefer to broaden the focus) are free to do what they want to do. Hence the vast and ever changing bush of life. At the very least, this theory restores God’s almighty powers which in one of the above quotes you so proudly stripped him of!

Once more: please reconsider this theory which makes your God all-powerful but not all-powerful, in total control but not in total control, and directly designing all species but actually only "allowing" random beneficial mutations to survive.

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