Back to David's theory of evolution: God's errors (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, July 25, 2020, 10:37 (1580 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: "Clearly absurd" shows a total misunderstanding of the problem. Living biochemistry is an amazing development, whose origin is not understood. To repeat once again: the molecular reactions are at split-second speed, generally relying on function from specialized folding of organic molecules. Contrary to dhw's opinion it is amazing it works as well as it does. Ask any biochemist.

dhw: This must be the most “non sequitur” response you have come up with so far. Living biochemistry is so amazing that it is the best possible argument for design, as I have repeated over and over again. Now please explain the logic behind your belief that your God could not control the errors in the system and therefore gave cells instructions on how to control the errors in the system.

DAVID: The bold did happen, remember!!! There are all sorts of backup systems at work, which show God recognized the problem as you note. But they, like the systems they try to monitor and correct, are also prone to molecular error. That is the nature of the beast. It is not God's fault, and I would say impossible to control by a better, more proficient, God.

I noted that this was your belief! And I noted that you believe God gave instructions on how to correct the errors he couldn’t correct, and these corrections were also subject to errors, and although he created the system from scratch, it wasn’t his fault, apart from those errors in the system that kill old people (and unavoidably kill young people), because those were deliberately designed.

dhw: We all know that things go wrong! Your solution to the problem of “errors” by your God - which we might call a branch of theodicy - is to present him as having invented a system which he could not control (so somehow this means the errors were not his fault)…

DAVID: Note the bold! If He couldn't stop the molecular errors, then they are not His fault.

So if I invent a flying machine which crashes because of a technical error I can’t stop, you won’t blame me as you hurtle to oblivion.

dhw: …but he provided us with safeguards as well as the intelligence to correct some of the errors which he himself could not correct. The safeguards can only mean he did know how to correct some of the errors he did not know how to correct, and our intelligence must be greater than his if we can correct errors he couldn’t correct. I find this illogical, as well as running contrary to your often repeated belief that your God is all-powerful and always in control.

DAVID: Our knowledge is not greater than His. Note your red colored comment. We have figured out how some of His system works and can tailor it by using CRISPR made by His bacteria. We have to use His life inventions to do anything, so He is obviously superior.

I don’t need to note my own comment! If we can correct errors he can’t correct, then we are smarter than he is. If he exists, I honestly DON’T think we could be smarter than him. But you keep emphasizing the incompetence of your all-powerful, all-knowing, always-in-control God, whereas I propose that he knew exactly what he was doing.

dhw: We should also remember that all these errors accumulated over thousands of millions of years of evolution (unless bacteria suffered from all the diseases now known to humankind!) and so the question must arise as to how and when these “safeguards” were actually installed? How could he have directly dabbled or provided the first cells with a 3.8-billion-year programme to correct errors he could not correct?

DAVID: I don't know when He recognized the problem during evolution, but I would guess quite early as we know of cell-splitting problems, which means bacteria could certainly have reproductive problems. Note the blue comment: He put in backups, so He was correcting as much as He could. It all bothers you more than me; surprising as I believe in him, and you don't. So it is your problem, not mine.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with belief in God and everything to do with your increasingly illogical interpretation of your God’s nature, intentions and methods. Bacteria’s possible reproduction problems are pretty limited compared to the number of diseases (“errors”) that have evolved in the course of the last 3.8 billion years, and I’m sorry, but pointing out that I am an agnostic does not provide an answer to the question in blue.