Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, July 17, 2020, 10:02 (1588 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Unavoidable, was explained: molecular errors in high speed reactions. Older organisms have lots more errors. 'Aging' is built in purposely. All have to die.

dhw: The fact that old organisms suffer from more of the same "mistakes" than young organisms does not alter the fact that all the mistakes can cause death... Please tell us why you are so opposed to the theory that an all-powerful God deliberately created the “errors” in the system.

DAVID: You've avoided my direct statement of fact that ageing & death are both built into the system purposely. Old has to clear out for new. God built in ageing. Errors of rapidly reacting molecules are never His fault. The biological errors were expected by God, as shown by all the backup systems He designed into place.

I didn’t ignore it. You simply left out my comment: “Now you seem to be telling us that the only deliberately caused death is death by old age!” Meanwhile, you continue to insist that although your God built the system from scratch, he is not responsible for its errors, and you refuse to say why you are opposed to the theory that your all-powerful God might have created the “errors” deliberately because his plan was – as you put it – to clear out the old for the new.

DAVID: God does what He wants to do, and His inventions have limits. So? doesn't bother me.

dhw: I’m happy with that. It means that he wanted his inventions to have limits. It clearly does NOT mean that the limits were beyond his control. This at last would give some consistency to your claim that your God is all-powerful and always in control.

DAVID: Opposite interpretation, as usual. Repeated: Errors of rapidly reacting molecules are never His fault. The biological errors were expected by God, as shown by all the backup systems He designed into place. He tried to correct all errors and couldn't.

You continue to emphasize the powerlessness of God to control the system he invented. How very human!

Under “planned death”:
QUOTE: "The authors describe some of the terrible things that happen when components fail. Among them are autoimmune diseases, necrosis (accumulation of dead cells), neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, blindness, inflammation, atherosclerosis, liver disease, diabetes, impaired wound healing, rheumatoid arthritis, infertility, and cancer. (DAVID’s bold)

DAVID: My bold is God's recognition of probable molecular failures. Definitely not intended or planned by God on purpose. Very carefully designed.

Your bold introduces a list which includes umpteen “terrible things” that kill young and old indiscriminately. Death is “built into the system”, but according to you these causes of death are errors. And they are definitely not planned but are very carefully designed! Can you honestly not see how illogical this is?

DAVID: Your analysis of God's actions is faulty; God can be patient and not rush his creations.

dhw: We are not talking about God’s patience. We are talking about the claim that he only had one purpose – to specially design us (and our food supplies)– had the power to do so, but spent 3.X billion years specially designing other life forms (and their food supplies). You admit that you have no idea why he designed all those other extinct life forms (plus food supplies) instead of the only one (plus food supplies) he wanted to design, and so I am suggesting that YOUR analysis of your God’s actions is faulty.

DAVID: My analysis is based on Adler's argument, which you recognize is strong.

I have nothing against Adler’s argument (the exceptionalism of sapiens as evidence of God's existence) as you have relayed it to us. But you have told us that his argument does not extend to the rest of your theory.

DAVID: …and you rebuttal above refuses to accept the idea God can choose any method of creation He wants, something you always scurry back to when challenged with.

Of course your God can choose any method he wants! But that does not mean he chose YOUR method! Yet again, I have offered you alternatives which you accept as logical. Stop dodging!

dhw: Your “humanizing” objection to my logical alternatives is invalidated by your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns similar to ours, so please stop flogging it.

DAVID: Stop twisting my arguments to cover your illogicality.

dhw: […] please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted. If you cannot do so, then please withdraw the accusation.

DAVID: God has chosen to evolve us, and you keep saying that is wrong. It is my theory.

If God exists, I have no problem with the theory that he has chosen to evolve us. My problem is your insistence that although you keep saying he is all-powerful and always in control (now qualified by his helplessness at the beginning of this post), and although his only purpose was to produce us, he spent 3.X billion years NOT producing us but instead directly designed (this is your idea of “evolving”) untold millions of now extinct non-human life forms, natural wonders etc. Please stop dodging, and please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted.