Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 12:39 (464 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Certainly death has to be builtin.

dhw: And death is caused by “errors” in the system, which means your God wanted death and therefore wanted the built-in errors. Away with the limited powers you illogically ascribe to your all-powerful God.

DAVID: Error!!! Death is caused by 'aging', which is wearing out of systems, not meant to last forever. It is a requirement to clear the way for newly arrived. How does wanting death reduce God's powers? More illogical thinking.

I’m surprised that in your career as a doctor you never came across young people dying of cancer, heart disease and other malfunctions of the system your God created. Wanting death does NOT reduce God’s powers! What gave you that idea? I am proposing that he wanted ALL the errors. It is you who reduce God’s powers by telling us he was incapable of designing a biological system without errors!

dhw: I would suggest that the complexity of the immune system has evolved “layer upon layer” as the cells have created their own defences against disease after disease, gradually building up a library of responses. I have doubts about an all-powerful God who finds it impossible to create a system without errors, while clever humans manage to correct his errors.

DAVID: Again totally illogical. Not God's errors but errors of life's functioning molecules

And who, according to you, created life’s functioning and error-strewn molecules? You say the errors were beyond his control. I suggest they were incorporated deliberately. Which of us is limiting God’s powers?

DAVID: Here is an article on correcting molecular errors in mitochondrial DNA:

QUOTE: Mutations in mitochondrial DNA cause over 150 distinct syndromes and affect 1,000 to 4,000 children born in the United States each year. There are no cures for these diseases.

DAVID: Thank goodness for our brilliant brain which can solve problems caused by molecular mistakes (bad mutations) in DNA. It is logical to hypothesize that God knew there would be molecular errors that we might be able to correct. I imagine dhw will again crow over these admissions that living mechanisms make mistakes. It is the reality we have to experience.

I do not “crow” over them. I am well aware of the reality of the mistakes in the system. I have even suffered from some of them myself! This is you twisting my arguments! I merely point out that your God created a system full of errors. You say he couldn’t avoid doing so, and you praise humans for correcting the errors your God could not avoid making, which makes us smarter than him. I don’t believe it. If I believed in God, I would believe that he would create what he wanted to create, which means he wanted to create the mistakes. You have him only wanting to create the mistakes that would make old people die, but not the mistakes (often exactly the same) that make young people die. How logical is that?

dhw: But according to you, all the life forms, econiches, lifestyles etc. were directly designed by your God. You use the word “evolution” to cover your Creationism in your attempt to dodge the question of why your God would choose to spend 3.X billion years directly designing anything but the only thing he wanted to design. Please stop dodging.

DAVID: God evolved us and I cannot know His reasons why. You don't know either.

You use the word “evolve” misleadingly, since you believe that your God directly creates all species. And I am asking why you think he directly created all the preceding non-human life forms etc. if he only wanted to directly create us. Nobody knows why God, if he exists, created life – but you insist that you do know why. According to you, he created life for the sole purpose of producing us. Nobody knows how speciation happened, but according to you, it was directly designed by your God. Hence the illogicality of your all-powerful God, who only wanted one species (plus food supply), directly designing 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human species plus food supplies.

DAVID: My interpretation is simple: God creates reality, the history of which tells us what He did, not why.

If God exists, nobody could possibly disagree with that statement. But that is not the end of your interpretation! You tell us why, and you tell us how, and the two together make no sense, as you acknowledge when you say you have no idea why he would have chosen to design the vast bush in order to produce us. You then reject logical alternatives on the silly grounds that they “humanize” God (see below) and that nobody knows the truth – which applies to all theories.

dhw: Your “humanizing” objection to my logical alternatives is invalidated by your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns similar to ours, so please stop flogging it.

DAVID: […] we cannot know God's thoughts behind His reasons for His actions. All we can know, not guess, is God's logic is like our logic. Stop twisting my arguments to cover your illogicality.

If God’s logic is like our logic, it should make sense to us. You constantly claim that I twist your arguments. Please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted.

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