David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections II (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Tuesday, October 06, 2020, 16:29 (16 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You are simply arguing That I am not allowed to have the belief that God ran evolution. Above are all the reasons you do not accept it. Direct creation and evolutionary creation are God's choice. He didn't tell me why.

dhw: You are “allowed” to believe whatever you want to believe! But the point of this forum is to discuss possible explanations of all the things we don’t understand. If God exists, and if we believe evolution happened, it is logical to assume that evolution is what he wanted to happen. The belief that he directly created millions of non-human life forms and natural wonders, and that he did so as “part of the goal of evolving humans” is not God’s choice – it is your subjective interpretation of his choice. You admit that you have no idea why he would have chosen to “evolve” (in your theory = directly design,) us in this way, so maybe your subjective interpretation is wrong.

The issue is whether God exists OR not. I am convinced He exists, and my view of His actions is a logical view. It is when you tell me my view is illogical that my hackles rise. And we get back to discussing your view of God, from outside belief, which has to skew your thinking as your grudgingly try Him on for size. You do not think about Him as I do, give Him a similar personality.

DAVID: The diversification is the necessary food supply which you do not deny. In evolution from simple to complex, it must go through many, many advancing-complexity stages. It's your same old complaint not willing to recognize God ran evolution as my basis for all statements. God is the designer. You play with the idea of a designer.

dhw: The necessary food supply for WHAT? 3.X billion years of food supply for extinct life forms are not necessary for species which exist now! You agree: “Extinct life plays no role in current time. The huge bush of life is in present time for our huge population now.” And the huge bush of life in past time was for the populations of past time. Yes, evolution has gone through many stages of complexification. Why must I accept that this means God “ran” evolution by directly designing every extinct life form and its food supply as “part of the goal of evolving (= directly designing) humans”? Why is my proposal that your God may have given organisms the mechanism to do their own designing regarded as “playing” with the idea of God as designer? And why won’t you accept its feasibility?

DAVID: If God is your mamby-pamby in-partial-control God then of course your theory is feasible. Our difference all starts with our individual views of God's personality. You do not and don't have to accept my view of God.

I would be able to accept your view of God if you could explain how it fits in with life’s history as we know it. But your view makes him perform actions which contradict your view of his intentions. I offer alternative views of his actions and intentions, all of which you agree provide logical explanations of life’s history as we know it.

dhw: All organisms are and were part of “food supply”, either by eating or by being eaten. How does that prove that the colourful pattern inside the mouth of the vidua finch, and the patterns and camouflages and natural wonders of the past 3.8 billion years, were all “necessary” for the evolution and feeding of humans?

DAVID: They are all part of God's pattern of evolution over 3.8 billion years. Ecosystems all have their own needs and structures. And God is always capable of designing big and little.

dhw: I agree. Nothing whatsoever to do with all of them being “part of the goal of evolving humans”.

I disagree here.


QUOTE: "The new study describes how these organisms evolved to use apoptosis, a survival tactic known as cell death, to essentially sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the whole organism’s health. The same system is also present in humans."

DAVID: Every necessary process has to start somewhere, sometime. And then carry forward into the future, because what happens early sets the stage for the future. Humans arrived as a result of all the events before them, something dhw always seems to get confused about. The appearance of humans through evolution required all the past events.

dhw: A wonderful example of how evolution works through cells cooperating as a community. It applies to ALL organisms, and is even reflected in the behaviour of social creatures like ants, which sacrifice themselves for the good of the community. I agree that the past “sets the stage for the future”: cells have always cooperated. But I’m afraid it’s totally beyond me (and you) to explain how ALL the events of the last 3.X billion years, ALL the extinct life forms, ALL the natural wonders, ALL the econiches, ALL the strategies etc., which you believe were directly designed by your God, could have been “part of the goal of evolving [= directly designing] humans.”

You've described my view that God created humans by the process of evolution.

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