Back to David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, September 10, 2020, 12:40 (19 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: We are not discussing what systems your God might and might not have come up with. My proposal is based firmly on the system we have, and with my theist hat on, I have proposed that the system we have may be precisely the system he wanted. He gave molecules the freedom to do their own thing. You have admitted this: they are free to disobey his instructions....

DAVID: Right, God the best system He could. Free to react molecules can work faster than molecules encumbered by precise hands on molecules. The freedom is required. Again you ignore the evidence God knew of the problems related, by the magnificent editing systems in place.

The magnificent editing systems are not the problem! The problem arises when those magnificent editing systems fail to edit out the “errors” that cause untold suffering and death (disregarding the apparently specially designed mechanism for ageing and death from old age - see below). If your God gave molecules the freedom to disobey, others are free to obey, so why should he not also have given them the freedom to come up with counter measures to thwartthose nasty molecules that cause diseases? Maybe this freedom was not accidental, unavoidable and in need of correction at all. Maybe it was what God wanted. That is my alternative theistic explanation of what you call the "errors". It would be so much simpler to explain diseases as the outcome of God creating a system whereby cells (I prefer the larger unit) are free to govern themselves (as you believe he has done with us humans.) And maybe that freedom can also explain the whole history of life's ever changing bush throughout history.

dhw: keep telling us to focus on the successes! You say the diseases only count as 0.000001% of the system, so we should look at how well it all works!

DAVID: Of course look at how it works!! Your recitation of my initial ruminations is worthless, and therefor removed. I am content with my current presentation, which your confused comments helped clarify.

Your initial ruminations on evolutionary “errors” underwent a 100% reversal and since your current view is that they are not worth bothering about, I’m happy for you to leave them out. I’m pleased to hear that my comments helped to clarify your confused presentation. Your confused ruminations on disease-causing “errors” remain at the top of the agenda:

dhw: of the great incongruities in your "error" theory: your always-in-control-except-when-he-isn’t-in-control God deliberately designed the mechanisms for ageing and death, so they are not errors, but he could not possibly have designed the mechanisms for disease, which you may know as a retired doctor are errors that can cause death. Apparently these were not his fault, and he tried his best to correct them, but often failed and so left it to good folk like you to correct.

DAVID: Your usual muddled approach. Because of errors God has editing systems in place.

dhw: Your usual muddled approach. According to your theory, there are no editing systems in place for ageing and for death from old age, because those were designed...

DAVID: Death is designed in, very logically. There has to be room for new generations as populations tend to multiple beyond reason when well adapted.

We have agreed that death is necessary. The incongruity is what follows:

dhw: ...but there are editing systems in place for accidental but unavoidable disease-causing errors, which kill organisms of all ages, only the editing systems don’t work a lot of the time so we humans have to correct what your God couldn’t correct. This whole thread is a tangled mess and I do wish you would cut it and move on.

DAVID: I won't stop. Biological errors are part of our form of life, and must be satisfactorily explained from the viewpoint of a creator God.

My complaint is that your explanation is anything but satisfactory. For some reason you have brought evolution back into the discussion, so I’ll deal with that first:

DAVID: the high-speed biochemical process called life, in the process of evolution, God edits all genome advances into new species.

So what “errors” are you talking about? Initially they were random mutations which your God could not prevent but could only allow. Now you’ve dropped them altogether. God simply dabbles with the genome. Let's get back to diseases:

DAVID: The bold is a direct distortion of my presentation. Errors are rare. Why are you in good health at 83 and me at 91, if errors are common due to poor editing? The tangled mess is due to your bias. Short and simple review: During life most molecular errors are competently edited out which is why we have long lives, but we do have to try to correct what rare mistakes get through the editing process. If errors were common, life would be a mess. It isn't. Very simple explanations of how and why God produced what He did. You should be able to understand this summary paragraph.

Narrowing the field to humans, you seem to have forgotten that vast numbers of people do not die of old age but die prematurely from diseases. As a doctor, you did your very best to correct the errors which your God’s “magnificent editing systems” had failed to correct. THESE are the errors that need to be satisfactorily explained. They are not explained by you and me celebrating our antiquity.

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