Back to David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, September 05, 2020, 19:06 (1538 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I have proposed that the system he designed, complete with so-called “errors”, is precisely the system he wanted to design, giving molecules the freedom to do their own designing, attacking and defending.

DAVID: The red colored sentence is not what molecules do. They are under God's instructions for their actions.

dhw: But they are free to make "mistakes"! You keep telling us that your God can’t prevent them from doing so! The difference between us is that you say it’s not his fault and, in the case of disease-producing errors, he does his best to correct them. I propose that he deliberately gave them their freedom, and indeed that is what has led to the vast variety of life’s bushes (evolutionary "errors") and also to the required phenomenon of death (disease-causing "errors").

DAVID: The bold is wrong, in my view. God could not have control under the system He created, and we do not know if any other system is available for use in life. My thought is God used the only system He could create, since He is the creator of reality. And again you ignore the point that most aging is built in necessarily.

dhw: You are once again harping on your God’s lack of control, whereas in the past your God has always been in control of everything. If your God could not prevent molecules from disobeying his instructions, then they were free to disobey his instructions and do their own designing, defending and attacking! Either he did or he didn’t want that to happen. And you are right, we don’t know if another system is possible, so why do you assume your all-powerful God couldn’t have created one? I’m not saying my proposal is right – I don’t know the truth any more than you do. But I look for an explanation that makes sense. Why doesn’t my proposal make sense? It incorporates ageing and death – all in keeping with what God WANTED to create, instead of your proposal that he wanted ageing and death but didn’t want all the nasty “errors” which he tried to correct but in many cases couldn’t, and therefore left to us to do what he couldn’t do.

You keep forgetting or ignoring that our bodies are constantly under reproduction and that process must be protected from serious error. And that is all I have shown you. God has almost always protected us from them with His very complex amazing systems. We know He cannot have total control over molecules that are free to make mistakes. As for this 'problem' system I firmly believe it is the only one He could create. We have discussed the dangerous events in the universe that might affect us. I accept that our God created the best systems that could be created, and there are no others possible in a quantum based reality. My view of God is certainly not yours.

Under “Biological complexity: removing cellular garbage”

DAVID: The system had to be in place with the appearance of the first cells, for continuous garbage accumulation would lead to cell death. Only design fits. This thought applies to origin of life. The very first cells that lived had to have a garbage system as an integral part of the cell. And obviously this is a very important part of God's error control editing system.

dhw: I think you should drop this whole concept of “error”, which is thoroughly misleading. According to your original theory, “errors” were mistakes which could not be prevented. You got into a complete tangle over evolutionary “errors”, and you are still in a tangle over disease-causing “errors”, which also “lead to cell death” – but you don’t even want to talk about them any more. Now all of a sudden we have a new category: garbage. Why do you regard the removal of unnecessary matter as editing a mistake? Shrinkage of the brain entails getting rid of unnecessary cells. Were they a mistake? You even support the theory that the whole of evolution is based on discarding unnecessary genes. So if God’s only purpose was to design H. sapiens plus food supply, were all the preceding and now extinct life forms and food supplies an “error”?

The first cells had to have a garbage removal system. I'm in no tangle about the subject of life while intense reproduction is occurring. What you haven't absorbed from the article is garbage includes misfolded molecules!!! So garbage removal is part of the error editing system. Did you read the first sentence I wrote in that entry?:

"This is part of the error control system as it removes from the cells waste and improperly formed protein molecules:"