Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, July 13, 2020, 11:48 (1592 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Your long statement states that lower animals have more brain capacity than I think they do. I know that in training horses, constant repetition does it. One item at a time until they learn to repeat it. Never correlation of two time separate events. Mental correlation is too much for the insect brain. I'll stick with God. I'd like to hear from Tony.

dhw:I have given you example after example of animal intelligence in which separate time events are correlated, so you come up with a totally irrelevant reference to training horses and conclude that my examples are impossible. Only your God can apparently train insects, animals, birds and parasites to observe and to learn from experience how to make the connections over time that will help them to survive. This leads to the theory below:

DAVID: I'm convinced God arranges for instincts. As for my observation as to how animals learn, I know what happens with horses. Why object. I don't remember any examples resembling the problem bees present: leaves are not flowers, and the bitten leaves happen weeks before flowers appear. Their earlier appearance is another p art of the conceptual observation .

There are many things you are convinced about, but I’m afraid your conviction alone does not make for rational argument. I gave you examples of how insects and animals make provision for the future as a result of their observations and experiences, ranging from food storage and hibernation to migration and parasitic and symbiotic relationships: they all entail observation over time resulting in what will eventually become what you call “instinct”.

DAVID: […] Behe and I both believe in DNA pre-programming. Dabbling would be the gene destruction Behe describes.

dhw: Have I got this right? You (and Behe?) appear to believe that every single life form, econiche, lifestyle, strategy, natural wonder etc. in the history of life was preprogrammed in the first cells, and in order for each one to emerge separately, your God took out the umpteen million programmes for all the other life forms, econiches, lifestyles, strategies and natural wonders, leaving just the one. If this is wrong, do please explain what you (and Behe?) think your God preprogrammed and what he dabbled.

DAVID: That is the point of Behe's new book! Why couldn't God program it all in the beginning?

dhw: Fancy your God having to step in and disconnect billions of programmes every time he wants to start one. Or do you think the leaf-biting bee disconnects the other billions of programmes all by herself? Or has God provided her and every other organism in the history of life with a programme for automatically disconnecting the other billions of programmes?

DAVID: I'm delighted you are confused about Behe. He has disturbed lots of Darwinist folks. The bold is a misinterpretation. Destroying some DNA allows a new advance to appear. Really simple, and means the underlying evolutionary information is all there waiting to be let out.

So instead of disconnecting programmes, you have your God destroying one layer of programmes, and then up pops…what? The single programme for leaf-biting bees. All the other umpteen billions of programmes simply disappear.

DAVID: There is an easily seen reason for this: think of packing for a long trip, which requires much thinking and planning. On the trip unpacking is easy as a result of foresight. Seen in patterns of planning.

You asked why your God “couldn’t program it all in the beginning”. I would suggest that your image of unpacking is woefully out of kilter. According to you, the suitcase is already packed with every single life form, lifestyle, natural wonder etc. in the history of life. And so when your God wants only to produce a leaf biting bee, he chucks out every other item in the suitcase.

DAVID: The bird skeleton and ours may differ but everything is actually comparable. Think of courses in comparative anatomy offered in biology.

Yes indeed – this is regarded as evidence for evolution and common descent. What has that got to do with your God’s special programme for leaf-biting bees?