Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, July 05, 2020, 09:39 (35 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Death is designed into the system with wearing out along with specific illnesses of aging.

dhw: So your God deliberately designed all those parts of the biological system that wear out and kill old people, but he accidentally designed all the errors in the biological system that kill off young people as well as old people. This is getting silly!

DAVID: Your silliness is really exposed. God did not design accidental errors in living biology. Do you know the definition of 'accident'?

You wrote: “The 'errors' are accidents not planned.” But he designed the whole system! You have even said that he knew the unplanned, accidental errors were part of his design, and so he provided safeguards, though some of these didn’t work either! The silliness lies in your God deliberately designing “errors” to kill old people but calling the same errors “accidental” when they kill young people.

dhw: […] please answer my bolded question.

DAVID: I can't answer a bolded imperfect premise re the meaning of 'accidental'.

The bolded question is: perhaps you would tell us why you think a God who deliberately designs the imperfect system we know is more “human” and less purposeful than a God who is unable to design a system without imperfections. Nothing to do with the meaning of “accidental”.

DAVID: […] we and He use the same logical methods. […]

dhw: What “logical methods”? If I have a single goal to create one thing and the means of achieving it, I will use the means of achieving it. That is my logic. How is that the same logical method as having a single goal to create one thing and the means of achieving it, but not achieving it until after creating millions of other unrelated things?

DAVID: The bold is a perfect example of your human thinking applied to God. Thank you. Makes my point.

dhw: Your point was that “we and He use the same logical methods.” My human logic and your version of God’s logic could hardly be more different!

DAVID: Of course God may follow a different pattern of logical thought than you or I do. You are arguing from your human viewpoint as to why He chose his method of creating humans. His choice is from His desires, not logic, but his choice of evolution must be logical in his mind. We cannot know the reasons for His desired goals, although you constantly want to guess!

So why do you keep saying “we and He use the same logical methods”? Of course his method of creating humans and all the other mainly extinct life forms you keep forgetting about would have been from his desires and would have been logical in his mind. That is why I have offered you several logical “guesses”. Only yours is illogical, but you can’t bear to think it might be wrong!

dhw: I do not complain about Adler! I complain about your theory that your (sometimes) all-powerful God had only one purpose – to create H. sapiens – but directly designed millions of other, now extinct life forms, natural wonders etc. that had nothing to do with humans, before he directly designed lots of different homos before he directly designed H. sapiens. I keep asking you to explain the logic, and all you do is hide behind Adler, who you have told us quite explicitly does not cover your theory! Yet again: please stop dodging!:-(

DAVID: I have written above Adler's thoughts. My theory comes directly from Adler's exposition about our obvious vast difference from animals with abstract thought and consciousness which came through evolution. […]

More dodging. I accept our obvious vast difference from animals.

DAVID: You still don't allow the thought God had the right to choose his method of creation. […] Must I remind you, your approach to your intentions are not God's, as much as you try to humanize Him.

Of course God chose his method of creation! “Must I remind you” that your approach to his intentions and methods is illogical (hence the dodging), whereas my alternatives – which you agree are logical – are dismissed on the grounds that they humanize a God who you have told us probably has thought patterns similar to our own.

Transferred from “brain expansion”:
dhw: Now I seem to stand alone in suggesting that he knew exactly what he wanted and did it!

DAVID: I love it! I fully agree with the bold!!! And He is quite all-powerful. After all, He started the universe, evolved it to create a massive Milky Way which then, under His guidance produced an Earth perfect for life, which He then invented, warts and all!!! Fuss over the warts. He is still God. Look what He has produced. But no, all you look for are the negatives, which allow you to deny Him. There are so many positives which 'prove His existence beyond a reasonable doubt' (Adler).

What is “quite” all-powerful? Again you dodge the implications of your own guesses, and especially the “warts”. I have never “denied” God. I present the case for and against in order to explain my agnosticism. And our disagreement has nothing to do with the existence of God but concerns only your illogical theories concerning his possible nature, purpose and methods. Please stop dodging!:-(

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