Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, August 05, 2020, 14:35 (51 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Shapiro theory of no value.

dhw: If your God did not design every species but “allowed” the relevant random mutations to happen, then random mutations led to speciation (Darwin). Shapiro suggests the mutations were the product of cellular intelligence. So you are now a Darwinian.

DAVID: Not at all. See the errors thread for hopeful clarity for you.

No clarity whatsoever. Please tell us how God “allowing” beneficial mutations, which arise from mistakes he is not responsible for, can mean he designed all the mutations that led to speciation – especially in view of your statement that “a mutational error favoured by natural selection or by God may have arranged for our human evolution”.

DAVID: (under “Brain expansion”): […] You've pounced on errors as a gift from me to denigrate God. But it hasn't worked.

dhw: This is not denigration of God! You wrote: “I am the one willing to show that God is not all-powerful and all knowing and He can’t stop molecular errors in a system he created.” THAT is denigration of your God. I propose that he did what he WANTED to do – namely, create a mechanism that would give rise to the higgledy-piggledy bush of life’s history, culminating (so far) in humans. No denigration. You have simply proposed a theory of errors which negates your theory of speciation by your God's direct design.

DAVID: God was always under full control as I've described. You want a weak humanized God who allows mistakes to make advances. Not my view of a highly purposeful God in any way.

The bolded quote above does not describe a God who is in full control, and it is you who have explicitly stated that your God allows (beneficial) mistakes to make advances! My theistic version of the “mistakes” proposes a God who does exactly what he wants to do, and the history of life reflects the fulfilment of his purpose.

xxxx

Under “Nature’s Wonders”:

dhw: The “whole vast bush of life” reaches back 3.8 billion years, 99% of it being extinct. Of course creatures within any econiche are connected, but it is patently absurd to claim that turtles…show that every single econiche in the history of life “had to be built as part of the goal of creating humans”. [...]

DAVID: Thank you for finally recognizing the interconnection of econiches and then presenting your usual confused and limited understanding of their importance.

dhw: I have always recognized the interconnectedness of econiches, have never underestimated their importance for ALL organisms extant and extinct (i.e. the ones you prefer to forget about), but have always challenged your repeated assumption that every econiche in the history of life was directly designed by your God “as part of the goal of creating humans”. Please stop erecting silly straw men.

DAVID: Always a logical rejoinder analyzing how God handled His process of evolving us from bacteria.

dhw: I cannot see the logic behind your insistence that every single organism in every single econiche in life’s history was “part of the goal of creating humans”.

DAVID: Same silly distortion. I don 't try to explain His choice of method.

There is no distortion in my repetition of your own words or in the fact that I can’t see the logic behind your theory. You tried earlier to explain the choice of method you impose on your God by telling us that He had to design all the organisms in all the econiches to feed humans who weren’t there yet. I don’t blame you for not trying again.

xxx

DAVID:An insect cannot develop a toxin by trial and error and survive. Designed by God.

dhw: Maybe its ancestors survived by other means.

DAVID: Tell me the other means, can you?

How about a sticky, non-toxic web that simply traps the spider’s prey until he/she eats it? :-)


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