Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, July 11, 2020, 19:37 (1594 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Finally, back to my point. It takes a repeated observation and a mental analysis, the latter being your assumption as to how brainy bees can be. Bees may have waggle dances, but that doesn't prove God didn't help with both instincts.

dhw: We are not talking about the complexity that requires design. You assume that animals and insects are unable to observe, to learn from experience, and to communicate without your God either preprogramming every single strategy, lifestyle and “natural wonder” 3.8 billion years ago, or stepping in to give lessons in leaf-biting, dancing, camouflage, migration, nest-building (my favourite weaverbird) etc., even though his one and only purpose was to design H. sapiens and his food supply. I'm afraid I find all this a bit hard to swallow.

DAVID: My dog has learned a great deal by observation. It is hard to formally train Poodles. But nothing he has learned required by the mental correlation of two separated events in time as connected. You just don't see the point. The bitten leaves are totally unrelated in time. It takes multiple observations over time, then wondering are these related, and then realizing they are, and deciding to purposely repeat biting in action to confirm it.

dhw: So you think that 3.8 billion years ago your God provided the first cells with a computer programme not only for the creation of bees, but also for the creation of one particular species of bee that would bite leaves and make them flower earlier than expected. Alternatively, your God directly created this particular species of bee and then instructed it to bite leaves etc. All in order to create a food supply for his one and only purpose: H. sapiens. I’m sorry, but I think it is far more likely that bees and ants and squirrels and polar bears and migrating birds originally learned by observation of separated events over time – a form of intelligence that enables them to make connections over time and hence to farm, or to store food in preparation for the bad times which lie ahead, or to fly to warmer climes before the bad weather comes – all in accordance with what observation and experience have taught them over time. Symbiotic and parasitic relationships must also have arisen from observation or experience over time: if a) does this and /or b) does that, the result will be beneficial. Once the observations and connections have been made, the behavioural pattern is passed on to future generations, which makes certain people believe that this behaviour is not the result of past observations and experiences over time but requires divine preprogramming or private lessons.

Your long statement states that lower animals have more brain capacity than I think they do. I know that in training horses, constant repetition does it. One item at a time until they learn to repeat it. Never correlation of two time separate events. Mental correlation is too much for the insect brain. I'll stick with God. I'd like to hear from Tony.