Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, September 07, 2020, 14:20 (327 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Of course you are not required to accept my thoughts! I firmly believe God designed all stages of evolution and I know you don't accept that.

dhw: You are playing the same trick again. One of my alternatives allows for your God designing all stages of evolution, including every species that ever lived, but in order for that premise to fit in with your premise that his one and only purpose was to design H. sapiens, we need a logical link, and that is provided by the hypothesis that he kept on experimenting in order to produce a being like himself.

DAVID: My God doesn't need to experiment to reach his purposes. He simply decided to evolve us by direct design of each stage.

But your God designed every single life form although he only wanted to design one. That is the combination of premises that makes no sense. He decided to do it that way is not a logical explanation. Experimentation is. You don’t have to accept it. But it provides a logical link between two of your otherwise incompatible premises, as do my other logical alternatives.

DAVID: Why God made that choice of His method are for His reasons. Perfectly logical.

It is perfectly logical that God did whatever he did for his own reasons. But it is YOU who have chosen the method and it is YOU who have chosen the purpose, and it is the combination of YOUR two premises that is not logical. Please stop assuming that YOUR guesses are facts. If they don’t add up, maybe one or other or both of them are wrong.

dhw (re the dodder plant): I would say the real issue is why you think your God directly designed this strange parasite if his only purpose was to design humans and their food supply. Do you think we’ll go extinct if the dodder disappears?

DAVID: You are inventing direct relationships that are silly and don't exist.

dhw: I agree. So what did you mean by “the individual systems interlock, always did”? What direct relationship do you see between all your God’s individually designed life forms, ecosystems, doddery strategies etc. from the year dot until today?

DAVID: The stepwise process of complexification of living forms.

So bearing in mind your statement that every living form was/is “part of the goal of evolving humans”, are you saying that human complexity could not have “evolved” (i.e. been directly designed, in your terms) by your God if he hadn’t designed the “natural wonder” of the dodder plant? Or we could not have had our food supply without it?

The subject of our next exchange was your complaint that: “All our possible reasons for God producing sapiens are our human guesswork. But they are still guesses, for the sake of guessing. I’ve given you previous lists of my guesses, and I’ve read yours. All logical and non-provable. So why bother?

I gave you a reason why we both bother, and replied to your argument about “guesswork”:

dhw: Yes, we both “invent” discussions about God’s purposes and methods of fulfilling his purposes, because neither of us knows the truth. You stick rigidly to your one illogical collection of guesses, and I offer alternative, logical combinations of guesses (you always agree that they are logical). If you bother to make your guesses, why shouldn’t I bother to do the same? I offered you an answer above.

DAVID: And I've given you my impression of the God you present. My God created the universe using quantum mechanics we still are confused about. My God doesn't need experimentation.

My question was: if you bother to make your guesses, why shouldn’t I bother to do the same?

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