Back to David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, August 09, 2020, 07:44 (443 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: …please explain what you mean by such statements as: “If he couldn’t stop the molecular errors, then they are not his fault”; “He was correcting as much as he could”; “…high speed reactions can have errors God can’t control”; “I am the one willing to show that God is not all-powerful and all-knowing and He can’t stop molecular errors in a system He created”.

DAVID: You totally lack understanding of what I am presenting. The mishmash of my statements shows that. We are discussing molecular errors in two different time frames. During evolution God is in total control of coding DNA so it is simple to see He can leave beneficial chance mutations and remove bad ones to fit His program. During life at the present time molecular errors occur and we try and help the problems created. Pay attention to the time frames.

You have told us that during life at the present time, he does nothing at all. All your previous, bolded remarks above therefore apply to what he could and could not do during evolution. Once again: How can a God who could not control or stop the errors have been in total control?

dhw: You have also given us a concrete past and present example of an uncontrollable error:

DAVID: The article shows cancer has always been around; this example from a dinosaur:

DAVID: cancers occur from copy errors in dividing cells. They have been around a long time. This is something God could not stop as He coded DNA for evolution.

dhw: But according to you he could destroy any errors he didn’t like. So not only could he not stop the cancer error (although he is apparently in full control), but he must have liked it too.

DAVID: The dinosaur cancer was due to cellular molecular error, just as errors occur now. It had nothing to do with the course of evolution. God would not have paid attention to it as it didn't change the course of evolution. You are still confused about how I see God's actions.

You said it was an error he could not stop. Of course the cellular errors that cause cancer did not change the course of evolution, but cellular errors INCLUDE the problems you say we try to solve now, such as cancer, which also afflicted organisms during evolution. You even claim that he left us backups to help us control the errors he could not stop or control. This part of our disagreement concerns your insistence that a God who could not control the errors in the system he created was in total control of the errors in the system he created.

As for your reference to his leaving (your usual word is “allowing”) beneficial mutations to “fit his program”, this referred to evolution, and it means evolution by selection from random mutations and not by direct design, although you have always maintained that speciation (as well as all the natural wonders etc.) was by direct design.

DAVID: 3) this is not Darwinism chance mutations arriving under no control.
DAVID: God is choosing a chance mutation if it suits His coding purpose.

You have left out my response. Once again: God selecting a chance mutation is no different from natural selection selecting a chance mutation. Both of them attribute evolution to selected chance mutations and not direct design, which has hitherto been your explanation for speciation.

dhw: I know that protein molecules and the rest of the life-giving system make what you call mistakes. And I have proposed that your God created precisely the system that he wanted to create, including the “mistakes”: namely a system in which cells (I prefer to broaden the focus) are free to do what they want to do. Hence the vast and ever changing bush of life. At the very least, this theory restores God’s almighty powers which in one of the above quotes you so proudly stripped him of!

Once more: please reconsider this theory which makes your God all-powerful but not all-powerful, in total control but not in total control, and directly designing all species but actually only "allowing" random beneficial mutations to survive.

DAVID: Totally wrong as explained. DNA working on its own, after it is coded, is simply a molecule that can make mistakes. Cell splitting goes on constantly, and we see very careful back up system created by God since it is obvious He recognized the error potential. Error at the cellular level cause mutations and cancers. As in the dinosaur.

The mutations include those that lead to speciation, and indeed according to you: “a mutational error favoured by natural selection or by God may have arranged for our human evolution.” And why do you continually try to gloss over the blatant contradictions I have just pointed out? Please reconsider this theory.

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