Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, July 12, 2020, 10:07 (390 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You just don't see the point. The bitten leaves are totally unrelated in time. It takes multiple observations over time, then wondering are these related, and then realizing they are, and deciding to purposely repeat biting in action to confirm it.

dhw: So you think that 3.8 billion years ago your God provided the first cells with a computer programme not only for the creation of bees, but also for the creation of one particular species of bee that would bite leaves and make them flower earlier than expected. Alternatively, your God directly created this particular species of bee and then instructed it to bite leaves etc. All in order to create a food supply for his one and only purpose: H. sapiens. I’m sorry, but I think it is far more likely that bees and ants and squirrels and polar bears and migrating birds originally learned by observation of separated events over time – a form of intelligence that enables them to make connections over time and hence to farm, or to store food in preparation for the bad times which lie ahead, or to fly to warmer climes before the bad weather comes – all in accordance with what observation and experience have taught them over time. Symbiotic and parasitic relationships must also have arisen from observation or experience over time: if a) does this and /or b) does that, the result will be beneficial. Once the observations and connections have been made, the behavioural pattern is passed on to future generations, which makes certain people believe that this behaviour is not the result of past observations and experiences over time but requires divine preprogramming or private lessons.

DAVID: Your long statement states that lower animals have more brain capacity than I think they do. I know that in training horses, constant repetition does it. One item at a time until they learn to repeat it. Never correlation of two time separate events. Mental correlation is too much for the insect brain. I'll stick with God. I'd like to hear from Tony.

I have given you example after example of animal intelligence in which separate time events are correlated, so you come up with a totally irrelevant reference to training horses and conclude that my examples are impossible. Only your God can apparently train insects, animals, birds and parasites to observe and to learn from experience how to make the connections over time that will help them to survive. This leads to the theory below:

Transferred from “brain expansion”:

DAVID: […] Behe and I both believe in DNA pre-programming. Dabbling would be the gene destruction Behe describes.

dhw: Have I got this right? You (and Behe?) appear to believe that every single life form, econiche, lifestyle, strategy, natural wonder etc. in the history of life was preprogrammed in the first cells, and in order for each one to emerge separately, your God took out the umpteen million programmes for all the other life forms, econiches, lifestyles, strategies and natural wonders, leaving just the one. If this is wrong, do please explain what you (and Behe?) think your God preprogrammed and what he dabbled.

DAVID: That is the point of Behe's new book! Why couldn't God program it all in the beginning? He may have programmed the evolution of the Big Bang to the universe we see today, the Milky Way and the Earth all at their beginnings. Then sat back and watched. If something evolved in a way He had not planned, He could then step in and correct it.

I have no objection at all to the proposal that God, if he exists, sits back and watches, and even steps in if he doesn’t like what’s going on (e.g. Chixculub). I would go further and suggest that he watches with interest, even though according to you that “humanizes” him so we mustn’t think in such terms. However, I have a great deal of trouble with the theory summarized above. I’m surprised Behe agrees with you, but if he really does, I’m afraid that still leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. Fancy your God having to step in and disconnect billions of programmes every time he wants to start one. Or do you think the leaf-biting bee disconnects the other billions of programmes all by herself? Or has God provided her and every other organism in the history of life with a programme for automatically disconnecting the other billions of programmes?

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