Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, June 25, 2020, 12:38 (488 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: In that sense He is limited, but it is the nature of the system.

dhw: He created the system! And yes, if he can’t do something, that means he is limited in any “sense”.

DAVID: It is a system limit. He created the universe with fine tuning and it produced the Earth and allowed Him to create life on it. No mistakes here. Life is at such a complex level, He cannot stop independent reactions from occurring, because He is not in moment by moment control of the living processes He created. And high speed molecular reactions cannot be perfect.

I love it. Thank you. From a God who was in total control, you have graduated to a God who “cannot stop independent reactions from occurring.” I suggest that for “cannot”, we substitute “does not want to”, and this would apply not only to what you call “errors” in the system, but also to all the “living processes he created” by way of evolution. The deliberate creation of mechanisms for "independent reactions" may indeed resolve many of the problems we have been discussing. This is a very welcome change of direction.

DAVID: You know full well I think your "God" thoughts are humanizing.

dhw: And you know full well that we cannot know your God’s nature, which means we cannot rule out the possibility (or even probability, as you once stated quite explicitly) that he has thought patterns similar to our own. In any case my “humanizing” is no defence of your illogicality.

DAVID: Your human views of God have nothing to do with my theory.

True. Those are my logical alternatives to your illogical theory, and your dismissal of them is in itself illogical.

dhw: Firstly, your idea of “evolution” is direct creation – you insist that he directly created every species, econiche and natural wonder in life’s history. Secondly, the question is not why he chose to “evolve” us, but why, despite his all-powerfulness, he chose to directly create 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human forms if his one and only purpose was to create us.

DAVID: Your disconnect is obvious here. Your total complaint is why not direct creation? Why bother with evolution? But evolution happened.

It is you who equate evolution with direct creation. I am perfectly happy with the argument that if God exists, he used the method of evolution to produce every life form including humans. I am not happy with the argument that he directly created every life form including humans, and he did so because he only wanted to create humans.

dhw: But I accept your answer: you don’t know. In other words, you cannot follow the logic of your own theory. And so perhaps your theory is wrong, and perhaps you should not dismiss alternative theistic theories which even you admit ARE logical.

DAVID: There is no logic to develop. Just allow the history to guide us to the generalization, with God is charge, He chose to evolve us. Perfectly logical. And there is no reason for me to know why He made those choices, since as you accept, I cannot know. Thank you.

That he chose to evolve us after evolving 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human life forms is no problem at all. But what you call “those choices” – as bolded above – may not be the choices he made, and THAT is what you cannot know, though you seem to take it for granted that you do. And you cannot find a reason why he would have made the choices you impose on him, whereas there are alternatives which you dismiss although you agree that each of them does provide a logical reason for his choice.

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