Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, August 13, 2020, 10:53 (1561 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: The question is why God WOULD have done what you describe: namely, in order to design one single species plus food supply, he designed millions of species, econiches, lifestyles, natural wonders etc. that had nothing to do with humans. Your answers have been: 1) you have no idea why; 2) to provide food for the humans who hadn’t yet been designed; 3) they were all “part of the goal of evolving humans” and you don’t need to provide any explanatory link; 4) you can’t know God’s reasons for the combined purpose and method which you impose on him. There is no point in my telling your God how he should have proceeded in order to fulfil the purpose you impose on him. I am bound by what you and I both see as the history of life on Earth: all those species, econiches etc. did exist, and evolution did happen, and any theory about God must tally with what happened. All my alternative theories do precisely that, and you accept their logic but illogically dismiss them on the grounds that they “humanize” your God although he probably has patterns of thought and attributes similar to ours.

DAVID: Your alternative theories have involved spectacle, experimentation, change of mind. These are humanizing thoughts you give to God. They do not fit my concept of God and His personality.

Of course they don’t, because even though you believe that he probably has thought patterns and attributes similar to ours, they all offer a logical theistic explanation of the history of life, and this explanation is different from your own, whose illogicality you persistently try to gloss over.

DAVID: I simply accept the history as a factual story of what God did while firmly accepting we were His purpose all along. I don't question any of it. You do.

I don’t question the history, which consists – as far as we know – of 3.8 billion years’ worth of ever changing life forms, ours being the latest. You do not “firmly accept” that we were his purpose all along. You firmly believe it. You cannot find any logical link between this belief and the higgledy-piggledy history of non-human life, and yet you reject all theories that either do establish a link or that provide different purposes, while still acknowledging the exceptional nature of H. sapiens. Your only, completely illogical reason for rejecting them – yet again - is that they “humanize” a God who in your view probably has human thought patterns and attributes similar to our own. See the errors post for your view of a God who is not all-powerful and all-knowing, and who “allows” random mutations to change the course of evolution, as opposed to designing it.

DAVID: The cells follow God's instructions from an old program or a new dabble. In my view He works either way, as I think of no other.

dhw: And so you have your God either preprogramming or directly dabbling millions and millions of non-human life forms, strategies etc. although from the very beginning the only life forms he wanted were H. sapiens and his food supply.

DAVID: Since my view is God designed and engineered evolution I must guess at His methods of control. The bold is your usual distorted view of my theories about God and evolution. It makes no sense to anyone. God chose to evolve us from bacteria. That is not the sense of the bolded opinion as you state it. Twisted distortion, not fit for further discussion.

dhw: Your rejection of the bold is startling. You have constantly maintained that sapiens was his one and only goal from the beginning, and the history of life was “all part of the goal of evolving humans”. That is what makes your theory illogical: that he fulfilled his goal by designing the great higgledy-piggledy bush of now extant, totally unrelated life forms etc. Please tell us your new beliefs concerning his goal.

DAVID: Why startled at your usual distortion? You accept history above and then reject it. Talk about inconsistency!

Please explain why my bolded statement distorts your theory that “we were his purpose all along”. Where have I rejected history? It is your interpretation of history that I reject!

Xxx

Under “Biological complexity: bacterial controlled clumps”:
QUOTES: “This organism has the distinction of being able to reorganize the structure of its population, allowing it to react to different environmental signals and even eat other bacteria.”

"In response to a hostile environment, such as in instances of nutrient deficiency, this bacterium directs its homogenous population to specialize into three subtypes of cells. These communities thus form 3-dimensional structures, visible to the naked eye. It is thanks to this multicellular lifestyle that they ensure the survival of their community."

DAVID: multicellularity had to start somehow. This is group action. Amoeba also have similar activities. Designed by God?

Another wonderful example of how individual cells combine into cell communities to design new ways of survival. Cell communities “reorganize” their structure in response to different conditions. You could hardly have a clearer image for the way evolution works – but instead of your implicit proposal that your God preprogrammed each reorganization 3-8 billion years ago or gave these bacteria private lessons, I would propose (theistic version) that he gave them the intelligence to work it out for themselves.