Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, August 22, 2020, 19:24 (1552 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You've left out my usual answer. God chose to evolve us. As God, he certainly had the right to choose to evolve any thing and everything. (You've previously agreed) My clear and logical reasoning comes by examples of His works: created the universe and evolving it; created the Earth and evolved it by creating life and evolving it. (Life has been accepted as helping to evolve Earth's conditions). In my view of God, God evolves all aspects of reality. It is your problem, not mine. End of discussion.

dhw: Sadly it is indeed your usual answer, which is to dodge the question. If God exists, all the above is logical. What is not logical is to claim that the purpose of all the above was to produce one species (us) plus food supply, that evolution means direct design of all species, and that instead of directly designing us, he first directly designed millions of now extinct non-humans and their food supplies that had no connection with us. There is no discussion if you refuse even to deal with the subject we are discussing.

I don't understand your illogical objection to my reasoning. I never have. The bold is totally illogical. Note you have agreed God could have chosen to evolve us. You seem to think your God wouldn't have made that choice. But the personality of your God is not the personality of my God.

dhw: Nobody could possibly think that God is like any other “person”! But according to you (and I agree), he probably has thought patterns, emotions and other attributes similar to ours. You cannot fathom the logic behind your theory – which has nothing to do with “personality” – so how can you know that he thinks in a manner you can’t understand, and does not think in a manner you can understand?

It is a simple point. Facts, that you always ignore commenting upon, tell us everything evolves. I believe God is in charge. Therefore He prefers to evolve all He creates.

Under Evolution: genomic evidence of preplanning:
Fins to hands:
https://phys.org/news/2020-08-lungfish-fins-reveal-limbs-evolved.html

DAVID: And I'll repeat the appearance of intelligence is shown in cells reactions following God's instructions. How do you explain cells errors during evolution, which we know occur? We also know most mistakes make for bad mutations, and very few are beneficial.

dhw: Your “instructions” = a 3.8-billion-year-old set of programmes for every undabbled innovation, lifestyle, natural wonder and bacterial response in the whole history of life. I find that hard to swallow. I have offered you a theistic explanation of the so-called “errors”: your God wanted them. He did not create a system he didn’t want and had to keep trying to correct, but a system that would create the vast variety of forms and lifestyles and natural wonders that make up the history of life as we know it. The vast variety also incorporates disease and death, because if it didn’t, Planet Earth would rapidly run out of room for everything and everyone! Cellular intelligence – unlike that if your (sometimes) all-powerful God - is limited! There are “errors” it can’t correct. That, I suggest, is what your God wanted.

You still don't seem to understand molecular errors, as we understand how life works, molecules are responsible within themselves to make perfect responses to stimuli and instructions. God cannot control their mistakes, and He knew it as He created life. He didn't want them, which is why we see the vastly complex editing systems that are present during reproduction of cell splitting. Life with error corrections had to be designed all at once at the beginning of life or nothing would have survived. Note output of reproduction in cell splitting is 99.999999.....+% accurate because of the editing. I see my purposeful God not wanting errors at all, while you weak mamby-pamby humanized God creates a diverse unorganized bush by accidents/ errors.

DAVID: And we also know through Behe, most advances are precise DNA deletions. Factor these facts into your answer, as I do.

dhw: How does Behe’s theory invalidate the theory of cellular intelligence? If your God could delete DNA, so could intelligent cells.

The cells would have to foretell their future needs. Not likely.