Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, July 18, 2020, 00:08 (1588 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You've avoided my direct statement of fact that ageing & death are both built into the system purposely. Old has to clear out for new. God built in ageing. Errors of rapidly reacting molecules are never His fault. The biological errors were expected by God, as shown by all the backup systems He designed into place.

dhw: You simply left out my comment: “Now you seem to be telling us that the only deliberately caused death is death by old age!” Meanwhile, you continue to insist that although your God built the system from scratch, he is not responsible for its errors, and you refuse to say why you are opposed to the theory that your all-powerful God might have created the “errors” deliberately because his plan was – as you put it – to clear out the old for the new.

Of course the errors result from the system He created. I've answered the deliberate issue. His backups shows us He tried to stop them.

DAVID: God does what He wants to do, and His inventions have limits. So? doesn't bother me.

dhw: I’m happy with that. It means that he wanted his inventions to have limits. It clearly does NOT mean that the limits were beyond his control. This at last would give some consistency to your claim that your God is all-powerful and always in control.

Total misinterpretation. See above. He tried to correct expected errors.

Under “planned death”:
QUOTE: "The authors describe some of the terrible things that happen when components fail. Among them are autoimmune diseases, necrosis (accumulation of dead cells), neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, blindness, inflammation, atherosclerosis, liver disease, diabetes, impaired wound healing, rheumatoid arthritis, infertility, and cancer. (DAVID’s bold)

DAVID: My bold is God's recognition of probable molecular failures. Definitely not intended or planned by God on purpose. Very carefully designed.

dhw: Your bold introduces a list which includes umpteen “terrible things” that kill young and old indiscriminately. Death is “built into the system”, but according to you these causes of death are errors. And they are definitely not planned but are very carefully designed! Can you honestly not see how illogical this is?

Cell deaths and organism deaths are purposeful as my entries show.

DAVID: My analysis is based on Adler's argument, which you recognize is strong.

dhw: I have nothing against Adler’s argument (the exceptionalism of sapiens as evidence of God's existence) as you have relayed it to us. But you have told us that his argument does not extend to the rest of your theory.

Adler quotes observations about our evolution

DAVID: …and you rebuttal above refuses to accept the idea God can choose any method of creation He wants, something you always scurry back to when challenged with.

dhw: Of course your God can choose any method he wants! But that does not mean he chose YOUR method! Yet again, I have offered you alternatives which you accept as logical. Stop dodging!

Your substitute methods are all humanizing: experimenting, spectacles, late decision to try out inventing humans

dhw: Your “humanizing” objection to my logical alternatives is invalidated by your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns similar to ours, so please stop flogging it.

DAVID: Stop twisting my arguments to cover your illogicality.

dhw: […] please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted. If you cannot do so, then please withdraw the accusation.out inventing humans

DAVID: Stop twisting my arguments to cover your illogicality.

dhw: […] please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted. If you cannot do so, then please withdraw the accusation.

DAVID: God has chosen to evolve us, and you keep saying that is wrong. It is my theory.

dhw: If God exists, I have no problem with the theory that he has chosen to evolve us. My problem is your insistence that although you keep saying he is all-powerful and always in control (now qualified by his helplessness at the beginning of this post), and although his only purpose was to produce us, he spent 3.X billion years NOT producing us but instead directly designed (this is your idea of “evolving”) untold millions of now extinct non-human life forms, natural wonders etc. Please stop dodging, and please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted.

My choice of God's method argument is what you twist (last bold). Your first sentence agrees with His evolving us. So what is wrong with it taking all the time it took? Your continuous objection is totally illogical to me and will not change my position that God has the right to evolve us over the time it took.