Back to David's theory of evolution: God's error corrections (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 12:11 (1537 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You keep forgetting or ignoring that our bodies are constantly under reproduction and that process must be protected from serious error. And that is all I have shown you. God has almost always protected us from them with His very complex amazing systems.

You keep forgetting that our bodies must age and die (deliberately planned), but that there are serious, unplanned disease-causing errors from which your God has not protected us, and which you wanted to explain on this thread. You have not explained them. You have told us they merely constitute 0.000001% of the system, and we should concentrate instead on how well the system works.

DAVID: We know He cannot have total control over molecules that are free to make mistakes. As for this 'problem' system I firmly believe it is the only one He could create. We have discussed the dangerous events in the universe that might affect us. I accept that our God created the best systems that could be created, and there are no others possible in a quantum based reality.

How do you know what is possible in a quantum-based reality which nobody can understand? On Friday you wrote; “We do not know if any other system is available for use in life”. It’s your belief that this is the only possible one. In any case, that does not exclude the possibility that this system is precisely the system your God WANTED. You admit that molecules are free to “make mistakes”, and those “mistakes” have resulted in diseases which your God cannot control. But if molecules are free to do their own thing and turn nasty, maybe God also gave molecules the freedom to be nice and to combat the nastiness. Immunity, after all, is an ongoing process – new diseases demand new defences. And maybe this “freedom” is the key to how the whole of evolution has developed.

Under “Biological complexity: removing cellular garbage”

DAVID: The system had to be in place with the appearance of the first cells, for continuous garbage accumulation would lead to cell death. Only design fits. This thought applies to origin of life. The very first cells that lived had to have a garbage system as an integral part of the cell. And obviously this is a very important part of God's error control editing system.

dhw: I think you should drop this whole concept of “error”, which is thoroughly misleading. According to your original theory, “errors” were mistakes which could not be prevented. You got into a complete tangle over evolutionary “errors”, and you are still in a tangle over disease-causing “errors”…. Now all of a sudden we have a new category: garbage. Why do you regard the removal of unnecessary matter as editing a mistake? Shrinkage of the brain entails getting rid of unnecessary cells. Were they a mistake? You even support the theory that the whole of evolution is based on discarding unnecessary genes. So if God’s only purpose was to design H. sapiens plus food supply, were all the preceding and now extinct life forms and food supplies an “error”?

DAVID: The first cells had to have a garbage removal system. I'm in no tangle about the subject of life while intense reproduction is occurring. What you haven't absorbed from the article is garbage includes misfolded molecules!!! So garbage removal is part of the error editing system. Did you read the first sentence I wrote in that entry?:
"This is part of the error control system as it removes from the cells waste and improperly formed protein molecules:"

I see what you mean, but I was thinking in more general terms of garbage as unnecessary stuff. (You said "including" and also waste AND the molecules.) It's not important. My point is also more general - that your theory of evolutionary and disease-causing “errors” has already resulted in confusion, as described above, and now we have unnecessary material (including improperly formed molecules) as another category of "error", which raises the questions I’ve asked above. I think the term “errors” is causing us nothing but trouble.

Under: Quantum physics: a different theory

DAVID: In living biochemistry which is not a controllable entity, in the same way that physics processes are, errors can occur and some don't fully appreciate the differences and either blame God for these errors or somehow think He purposely planned them. The plain reasoning is God fully knew what He was doing and knew errors would occur, proved by all the editing mechanisms He designed.

If God exists, I would certainly believe he knew what he was doing. I would not for one moment expect him to design a system full of errors he could not control, as you initially claimed for “evolutionary” errors and as is all too evident from the uncorrected disease-causing errors. See above for the rest of my proposal (bolded), which contains no “blame” at all but only the suggestion that he designed what he wanted to design, as opposed to designing what he did not want to design but had to design because…because what? He is not clever enough, and so had to leave it to us to try and correct the errors he couldn’t correct.