Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 11:33 (468 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Error!!! Death is caused by 'aging', which is wearing out of systems, not meant to last forever. It is a requirement to clear the way for newly arrived. How does wanting death reduce God's powers? More illogical thinking.

dhw: I’m surprised that in your career as a doctor you never came across young people dying of cancer, heart disease and other malfunctions of the system your God created. Wanting death does NOT reduce God’s powers! What gave you that idea? I am proposing that he wanted ALL the errors. It is you who reduce God’s powers by telling us he was incapable of designing a biological system without errors!

DAVID: I know full well about early deaths.

So why have you told us that death is caused by aging, and that was what God wanted? Old people and young people die from the same diseases, so which "mistakes" did he want (deliberate) and which ones didn't he want (unavoidable)?

dhw: You say the errors were beyond his control. I suggest they were incorporated deliberately. Which of us is limiting God’s powers?

DAVID: Can't I be honest about God's powers? It is you who are worried about limitations.

I am not in the least worried about limitations. One of my explanations of evolution is that God was experimenting, and you objected because your God knows everything and can do anything he wants. What worries me is that at one moment you are telling us that your God is all-powerful and always in control, and the next moment he has limitations, but mysteriously this case is less “humanizing” than a God who does what he wants to do.

DAVID: God evolved us and I cannot know His reasons why. You don't know either.

dhw: You use the word “evolve” misleadingly, since you believe that your God directly creates all species. And I am asking why you think he directly created all the preceding non-human life forms etc. if he only wanted to directly create us. Nobody knows why God, if he exists, created life – but you insist that you do know why. According to you, he created life for the sole purpose of producing us. Nobody knows how speciation happened, but according to you, it was directly designed by your God. Hence the illogicality of your all-powerful God, who only wanted one species (plus food supply), directly designing 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human species plus food supplies.

DAVID: Again a strange humanizing of God, who should not have waited to evolve humans over time.

Again dodging the issue, which is not evolution over time but your claim bolded above. “Humanizing” is a non-argument from someone who agrees that his God probably has thought patterns similar to ours. Please stop harping on it.

DAVID: My interpretation is simple: God creates reality, the history of which tells us what He did, not why.

dhw: If God exists, nobody could possibly disagree with that statement. But that is not the end of your interpretation! You tell us why, and you tell us how, and the two together make no sense, as you acknowledge when you say you have no idea why he would have chosen to design the vast bush in order to produce us. You then reject logical alternatives on the silly grounds that they “humanize” God (see below) and that nobody knows the truth – which applies to all theories.

DAVID: I am allowed, as you are, to theorize about God's purposes. Logic does not tell us God's reasons for wanting humans!!! You are not logical about God.

We are not dealing with his reasons for wanting humans. We are dealing with the claim that for 3.x billion years he directly designed millions of non-humans, although his only purpose was to directly design humans. Stop dodging!

dhw: Your “humanizing” objection to my logical alternatives is invalidated by your agreement that your God probably has thought patterns similar to ours, so please stop flogging it.

DAVID: […] we cannot know God's thoughts behind His reasons for His actions. All we can know, not guess, is God's logic is like our logic. Stop twisting my arguments to cover your illogicality.

dhw: If God’s logic is like our logic, it should make sense to us. You constantly claim that I twist your arguments. Please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted.

DAVID: Logic does not tell us God's reasons for wanting humans!!! You are not logical about God.

As above, we are not dealing with his reasons for wanting humans. Now please tell me which of your arguments I have twisted. If you cannot do so, then please withdraw the accusation.

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