Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing: cognition (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 11, 2021, 11:48 (16 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My position does not require wriggling. Evolution happened. Everything in our reality is God's creation. God created the evolutionary history, which ended with humans in control. They ere current and probably the final endpoint. Asv tehv endpoint, humans are/were his goal.

You never stop dodging. For the ad nauseamth time: If humans were his goal, why did he specially design countless life forms that had no connection with humans? If he was capable of designing completely new life forms without any precursors, why didn’t he produce sapiens directly? Your answer: “No idea. Go and ask God.” Yes, if God exists, our reality is his creation. But your theory concerning what he wanted to create and how he created it makes no sense even to you. This discussion should end here.

DAVID (under “fungus controls male flies”): You have finally understood my designer God makes new species in completely new forms (phenotypes) without precursor forms.
And:
DAVID: You have forgotten my statement that all life forms use the same biochemistry when life started, but even that biochemistry evolved to more complex processes as more complex forms appeared.

dhw: Hardly forgotten, since I reminded you that evolution is development of body forms and not biochemical processes…

DAVID: Wrong: new biochemical processes have appeared through evolution, one obvious one is sexual reproduction.

dhw: You wrote: "Not illogical when evolution is understood to be stepwise development of more complex body forms.” And you also wrote that “We’re descended from bacteria because we use the same biochemical processes that produce life.” Now you say they are not the same processes. All very confused and confusing.

DAVID: You confuse easily. Biochemistry and new body forms are both part of the same evolutionary process.

Of course they are, but you said we use the same biochemical processes as bacteria, and then you said there were new biochemical processes. (I suggested that sex was the same exchange of genes, but through different methods which required new body forms.) It makes no difference to the general argument. If your God can produce brand new species with no precursors, why didn’t he produce us without all the rigmarole of umpteen precursors (see your latest posts on gaps), let alone all the species he created that had no connection with us?

DAVID: Don't you realize God does what He wants to do. History tells you what He did.

Of course it does. If he exists, he created life. That does NOT mean he individually designed every single life form, or that his sole purpose was to design us.

DAVID: You request that I understand God's choice to evolve us. I don't/can't know His thoughts. Your request is illogical in itself. If evolution happened, God did it is simple logic when one believes in God.
And under “Theodicy”:
DAVID: As always: Believing God exists, He created evolution. Since based on belief, what is illogical? Your answer has to be belief in God is illogical.

Same old dodge. Yes, we evolved. But my request is for answers to the two questions bolded above in my first response. All my alternatives to the theory which you cannot explain involve God, and this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with belief in God! It is about your belief in a theory you can't explain.


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