Let's study ID (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, August 02, 2021, 10:24 (996 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You fully do not understand the adaptation of design theory to biological speciation. we are looking at large gaps in the fossil series we see. You stick to the Darwinist view of tiny adaptations to current requirements will lead to speciation. We can't find that 150+ years after Darwin. I started years ago with your approach and left it after my studies. Gould really helped when he described and accepted the gaps, causing him to try puncinc as a theory.

dhw:....My design theory is that pre-whale legs turned into flippers AS A RESULT of the animals using their legs for different purposes, with the various cell communities RESPONDING to the new requirements. I extend these examples to the whole of evolution: it advances through new designs which cope with or exploit new conditions. Gould’s theory has nothing to do with how the flippers and nests are designed, but it explains why there are gaps – because there are long periods of stasis when nothing changes, and speciation only occurs when conditions change. I find this perfectly logical. The time scale of change, however, remains open: how sudden is sudden, how gradual is gradual?

DAVID: It is only theory that changes in conditions causes speciation. Again no proof.

That applies to every theory, including yours, because nobody knows the truth.

DAVID: It is a weak branch of survival of the fittest empty theory. Gould did recognize huge gaps in gradualform changes in the fossil record, still most notably the Cambrian and the appearance of blooming plants is also totally unexplained by fossils. I'll stick with teh need for a designing mind running the show.

It is only theory that a designing mind runs the show. Again no proof. It is a weak branch of the God runs everything empty theory. (But NB, the theory that speciation is caused by organisms responding to changing conditions does not exclude the theory that God exists and engineered the whole process.)

The immune system
dhw: The changes take place IN RESPONSE to the new conditions, not in advance of them. And you can apply this process to the whole of evolution, so please stop telling us that design requires knowledge of future needs.

DAVID: […] At our current level of development our immune system recognizes anything new and can respond. Has nothing to do with how does speciation works?

dhw: I propose that the immune system mirrors the process of speciation, whereby the cell communities recognize anything new and RESPOND to the new requirements, as opposed to your God doing a dabble before the new requirements are known. Speciation comes about when changes are made to existing cell structures as they RESPOND to new requirements.

DAVID: That only fits minor modifications within species, not the whale series with major changes in each mew stage.

It “fits” major modifications theoretically, since each stage in the whale series improves the whale’s chances of survival by creating a more efficient way to cope with the requirements of life in the water. Your version raises the question of why your all-knowing, all-powerful God didn’t perform all the operations straight away, since he knew they would one day be necessary. Your theoretical answer?

TOMATOES
DAVID: Can God what He wants or not? Your reply doesn't recognize the type of God I believe in. I don't dodge. I stick to my concept of God hand His abilities. I have always told you your objection is entirely illogical from my viewpoint.

dhw: Of course God – if he exists – can do what he wants. And you simply go on ignoring the totally illogical gap in your theory, which is that all he WANTED was humans and their food, but he designed vast numbers of now extinct life forms, econiches, lifestyles, strategies and natural wonders, the huge majority of which had no connection with humans and their food. And you admit that you have no idea why, and then you return to dodging the whole anomaly.

DAVID: Totally illogical. If God can do what He wants, He can evolve humans from bacteria can't He?

There you go again, ignoring both my answer (first bold) and the anomaly that makes your theory totally illogical (second bold).