Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Saturday, October 09, 2021, 16:28 (13 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The Cambrian start all of our current phyla. As before, the background underlying living processes had been established sufficient for the jump to the Cambrian.

dhw: You have suddenly changed your mind: instead of us humans and our food being descended from bacteria, starting 3.8 thousand million years ago, your God apparently stepped in only 550 million years ago to dabble brand new lines of life (including ours and trilobites) from scratch. So if humans and our food were your God’s sole purpose right from the start, what was the point of all the extinct life forms that preceded the Cambrian (let alone all the extinct Cambrian [e.g. trilobites] and post-Cambrian forms [e.g. brontosaurus]) and had no connection with us and our food? Could it be that your God was experimenting, learning as he went along, getting new ideas? After all, producing brand new creations out of nothing, with no precursors, hardly suggests the continuity which is a constant theme in your assertion that ALL life forms were “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” and their food.

Same response: God stated all life from no precursors. The Cambrian is just another example of His powers. Yes we see discontinuity. Your exploration of God's mind constantly humanizes Him in your analysis as in the bold. In my view God knows exactly what to do and does it.


Immunity system complexity

dhw: You are simply repeating your belief that it’s “automatic”, and are totally ignoring the implications of your own description of the process. Cells recognize NEW invaders and produce NEW antibodies to fight them. And according to you, they do this without any intervention from your God. These two actions require COGNITION!

DAVID: Automatic cognition. They know self from non-self automatically. They know what is foreign. You get a splinter in skin. Inflammation always happens, but here only you can solve the problem with your tweezer.

dhw: You’ve got it. I am confronted with a new problem, I recognize it, and I produce the means of dealing with it. I agree that my feeling the pain is automatic. But my recognition of the cause of the pain and my working out a solution to nullify the cause require autonomous THOUGHT.

Your brain is not your cells. The inflammatory reaction is a standard body response to all insults, and is taught in the first day of med school pathology classes. Immune cells appear immediately, recognize non-self and begin automatic responses. Pus is purpose.


DAVID: If the production of antibodies always follows the same biochemical process and uses the same killer syz's, it is always automatic. What they add to kill or neutralize is always the same.
They know non-self and they know the answer before using it.

dhw: How can the immune system already “know” the answer to a problem it has never seen before?

They know non-self!!!

dhw: You seem to be going back to your God’s list of instructions for every new problem and solution, and all the cells have to do is pick out the right volume from the vast library God provided 3.8 billion years ago.

No I haven't, and perhaps my explanations are not clear enough to get through your imposed belief in cell innate intelligence. Immune cells recognize foreign substances (non-self). Antibody response is always to kill or alter the invader by adding the same proteins to proteins in the invader. The library is used only for repeat invaders. Responses to new invaders simply add to the library. The baby starts with no library, only some generalized ones, interferon, IGG, neutrophiles which engulf, etc. which we use all during our lives. B and T cells are born with the instructions to make antibodies when stimulated by recognition of foreign proteins.


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