Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing: cognition (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, November 06, 2021, 07:47 (22 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] the gaps according to you are caused by your God designing new life forms without precursors, and we are descended from those life forms. Evolution, you tell us, entails changes of form, not changes in the biochemical processes that enable all organisms to live. If all this is so, we are not descended from bacteria but from what were then brand new species without precursors.

DAVID: Right!!! God speciates forms He wants with no direct precursors in the Cambrian.

dhw: And so we are not descended from bacteria, and God is perfectly capable of directly creating whatever species he wants.

DAVID: We're descended from bacteria because we use the same biochemical processes that produce life.

You have just agreed with three exclamation marks that evolution entails changes of form, not of biochemical processes, and God creates new species (i.e. forms) without precursors, and you tell us that we are descended from just such new forms. If he created them separately (all this, of course, is assuming that he even exists), he could have created us separately. He didn’t. He not only created us in stages, but he also created countless other forms in stages, and most of them had no connection with what you say was his only goal, which was humans (plus food). (To be repeated ad nauseam every time you dodge it.) When I ask you to explain why he didn’t fulfil his purpose directly, your answer is “No idea. Go and ask God”, followed up by “…my mind is not blank, but I don’t know, and cannot know, why God chose to evolve us. Logical!!!” What you simply refuse to acknowledge is the possibility that if you can’t find a logical explanation, your theory might be wrong!

DAVID (under “Sponges”): The logic you abhor is that God chose to evolve us in small steps of form. The logic comes from the recognition that God can do anything He wishes for His own reasons.

Why do you keep ignoring the logic I abhor, which is bolded above and below? All we know is that we and all other life forms evolved in small steps of form (apart from those that you say were created separately), and so this logically casts doubt on your claim that we were your God’s only purpose. But if we really were his purpose, I have even offered you explanations to explain the rest, and you acknowledge that they too are logical.

Fungus controls male flies
dhw: The whole process suggests that there is cellular intelligence at work. I’m not sure why your God would specifically want to provide the first living cells with a programme for fungi to control male flies, or why he would pop in to give the fungi instructions – especially since his only goal was apparently to design humans and their food - but rest assured, I do not expect an answer.

DAVID: But you know the answer: all part of necessary vital ecosystems.
dhw: Necessary to keep alive all the life forms that had no connection with humans, although all he wanted was humans and their food, and he was perfectly capable of designing them without any precursors. Just stop pretending your theory is logical, stick to your confession that you have no idea why your God would have proceeded in such an illogical manner, and we can end this discussion once and for all.

DAVID: It is your problem deciding that my God did it all wrong in your eyes.

He did not do it all wrong in my eyes (if he exists). It is your bolded theory that must be all wrong!

DAVID: God speciates and produced us from the start of life in bacteria, producing new forms stepwise until we appeared.

How can you say he produced us from the start of life if he only started the process of producing us when you say he produced the new Cambrian species that had no precursors? And why do you keep omitting your belief that he also produced all the other life forms that had no connection with us, although we were his only goal?


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