Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, October 16, 2021, 13:05 (917 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You are interpreting God's wishes from known events He produced.

dhw: The known events are all forms of life, including those that had no connection with humans (plus our food). You interpret these as evidence that, although according to you your God designed them all individually, his only "wish" (previously known as purpose) was to design humans (plus our food). Your interpretation makes no sense even to you (“Go and ask God”).

DAVID: We do not know how many wishes God had.

Then please stop telling us that his one and only goal from the very start was to design humans plus their food, and all other life forms etc. were “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus their food. (And please don’t mention plural “goals” or “wishes” unless you can tell us what they might have been.)

DAVID: We know of the obvious human one. I am fully happy with my interpretations even if you tell me I don't make sense to myself. The lack of sense is yours.

How can you make such a claim when you openly admit that you have no idea why, if your all-powerful God’s only goal from the start was to design humans plus food, he would design countless forms of life and food that had no connection with humans plus food? You have also agreed that my different explanations make perfect sense, but you reject their logic because they differ from your own illogical theory about God’s purpose and method of fulfilling that purpose!

Immunity system complexity
dhw: You’ve seen the results of all the research in your crystal ball, have you? None of the studies have stated that it is all automatic, no thought involved, although no doubt many researchers share your views on automaticity even if they don’t share your erratic belief that your God did or didn’t preprogramme or give instructions for each new antibody.

DAVID: God did his programming. Your response is wildly erratic to protect your pet cell intelligence theory. I look at whole organ automatic function in which programmed cells act as if intelligent.

dhw: You have agreed that your God did not preprogramme every single new antibody to kill every single new invader for the whole of life’s history. (Each new antibody is added to the library without your God’s intervention, remember?) If he exists, what he would have designed is the MEANS whereby cells recognize and counter the threat posed by new invaders.

DAVID: Exactly. Transplant rejection problems must show you our cells know 'same' from foreign.

There is no disagreement over the fact that our cells recognize what is foreign. The disagreement lies in the fact that you do not accept that such recognition is a sign of cognizance not of automaticity.

dhw: It is your fixed belief that although cells then act ”as if intelligent”, they are not intelligent, and your explanation is that your God provided a programme or “instructions”, but when asked for details you simply repeat the PROCESS and repeat that you know the apparently intelligent behaviour is automatic.

DAVID: The brain entry today shows you how difficult it is to know exactly how any process of controls works. I can't give you your strawman 'details' of God's antibody programmed process. I can simply tell you the immune system always recognizes invasion and always produces new antibodies in the same way by adding the same proteins to new antigens (invaders). The new difference is only the reference protein of the new invader. All constantly automatic.

If we don’t know how the processes of control work, why do you keep insisting that they are automatic, following some vague programme or instructions from your God? Your constant repetition of “automatic” merely glosses over the fact that recognition of the NEW invader and the production of a NEW antibody require thought, and what is added to the library is not the same as everything else that is already in the library.