Let's study ID (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Sunday, August 15, 2021, 15:38 (69 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I've boiled down this aspect of our discussion to end it once and for all from my viewpoint. I view God as an all-powerful creator. I view all we know about our reality as a direct result of His intentions for creation. I view Him as fully purposeful and never meandering from His goals. I cannot know (but I can guess if I wished to do so) why He chose the methods He chose to reach His intended goals.

dhw: If God exists, this is exactly how I see him. But already you have introduced your first dodge. You do not say he has “goals”. You say he has one goal, which is to create humans and their food. This is what leads to the subsequent illogicality.

DAVID: But it is obvious He evolves all stages from the BB to humans. Evolution gives the appearance of a natural common descent, but the extent of the required exquisite biochemical designs forces the conclusion God's designing mind created all species from bacteria to the endpoint, humans with consciousness. Since humans are in total control of the Earth, the only further evolution can only be confined to humans, if we allow it. (dhw' bold)

dhw: And so once more you gloss over the fact that ALL species are not just from bacteria to the latest species (humans). ALL species encompass the vast range of extinct life forms that had no connection with humans. And so you are faced with the question: why, if his one and only purpose was to design humans and their food, did he specially design all the life forms that had no connection with humans and their food?

And once again you gloss over the concept, which you accepted above, that God can do anything He wants. God created the evolutionary history we know. Yes, it branches in all directions, so that is what He wanted on the way to creating humans. That is the exact concept about God you adamantly deny. Your main objection is to the concept of humans as very special and therefore a desired goal. All of this is a very connected theory which you slice into various parts that you illogically claim have no connections. It is all connected by accepting that God's works reflect His intentions.


DAVID: We see totally different Gods. As for your contrived bolded query about past evolution, you are simply complaining about past real stages in earlier evolution. why you don't accept that view is really beyond my comprehension.

dhw: I am not complaining about all the real life forms that have made up the ever changing bush of life! I am pointing out that they contradict your theory, and if the logical clash between these aspects of your theory is beyond your comprehension, then why don’t you accept that there may be something wrong with your theory?

As above, you create clashes that exist only in your mind.


DAVID: Evolution is a single long process in time, 3.8 byo it seams With giant gaps, each stage leading to the next more complex stage.

dhw: It is a single long process in which the bush of life has branched out into countless forms undergoing countless stages, the vast majority of which had no connection with humans and their food, which you insist were your God's one and only purpose.

Back to your view of a tunnel-visioned God. Humans and the huge bush of food are an historical fact showing God's intentions.


DAVID: My position is quite clear and firm. I don't accept your puzzling over different God's personalities, but go on puzzling all you want.

dhw: Your position is firm, and what is clear from this post is that you remain determined to ignore the illogicality of your theory. Even if you disagree with my different explanations, that still doesn’t provide you with any defence of your own belief, which you cannot explain. I’m not sure what you mean by “puzzling” here. I offer different theistic interpretations of evolution, all of which explain what you cannot explain.

By 'puzzling' I am referring to your various interpretations of what God is as a personage. I have fully explained my belief in the God I've described above and how I interpret the history He has created. You may say so, but you do not see the God I see.


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