Let's study ID (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, August 29, 2021, 15:49 (970 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I didn't impose a method on God. I think God created our known historical facts. Evolution occurred and humans appeared at the end. Conclusion: God wised to create Humans and did it by evolving them from bacteria. There is no false logic involved.

dhw: And you also have him evolving (which for you means specially designing) every other life form, econiche, natural wonder etc. in the history of life, so clearly according to the above, he must also have wished to create them as well as humans (and their food), but the vast majority of them had no connection with humans, and so the false logic is your claim that his only purpose was to create humans (and their food).

Same dichotomy of thought. All the rest become the food that is necessary

dhw: What is not logical is that he only wanted humans plus their food to appear, and therefore designed lot of species and food that had no connection with humans and their food. STOP DODGING!

DAVID: You just left the logic above. Your inference is why didn't God just go to direct creation of us if that is all He wanted? That is you illogical humanizing objection. What He created is what He wanted to create over time.

dhw: Correct, except that you call it “illogical”. Quite clearly, if he wanted to create all the life forms that had no connection with humans and their food, then it makes no sense to claim that all he wanted to create was humans and their food. He must have wanted to create all the other life forms as well.

Common sense at last. Of course His intent was to create all the rest. You have finally recovered from your misinterpretation of my point that humans were the desired final step. all that came before had to come before.

DAVID: […] When will you realize God doesn't reason as you do?

dhw: When will you realize that maybe God does not reason as you do, since your own interpretation of his reasoning makes no sense even to you! (You have no idea why he would have chosen to design all the life forms etc. that had no connection with humans and their food. So maybe he didn't design them. Or maybe he did, but their purpose was not to enable him to design us.)

DAVID: All I admit is I have no idea why He chose evolution as his means of all progress, but history tells us the universe evolved after the BB, the Earth evolved, and after life started it evolved. You remain confused as you deal with your very human form of God.

dhw: Our disagreement begins with your interpretation of why he created life.

Our disagreement starts as to whether God exists.

DAVID: Try to accept that history tells us what God decided to do and how He did it. Humans appear at the final curtain in the play of reality. Perhaps my dear playwright friend can understand it in his terms.

dhw: I can. And my play would never be performed if I introduced countless characters and story lines that had nothing whatsoever to with the situation at the end. Plays have to make sense. If God exists, I suspect that his "play" would also make sense.

Agreed, which is what the bush of life looks like, making perfect sense as food supply.