Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, October 07, 2021, 09:03 (310 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: A sole purpose is not the same as a final goal.

dhw: Back we go. According to you, all life forms and foods were “part of the goal of evolving [=designing] humans” and their food. So please, yet again, tell us what other goals you think your God had for designing life.

DAVID: We have covered all of the possible reasons God wanted to produce life that recognized He existed. […]

I was not asking about his reasons for producing humans who would recognize his existence. You implied that humans were not your God’s sole purpose, so I asked for other reasons why he would have designed all the life forms that had no connection with humans.

DAVID: All your guesses about the reasons for the gap are all in the negative.

Your whole point about the Cambrian is negative: there are no known precursors. How does that prove that there were no precursors, and that there is a God who stepped in and created new species out of nothing? Now let us consider the implications of this theory for your overall theory of evolution. You believe your God created life with the purpose of creating humans (plus our food). And you believe he “evolved” us (by which you mean designed us) in stage after stage, starting with bacteria. But all of a sudden, he started designing species from scratch – not descended from bacteria at all. So now what do you believe? 3+ billion years of special designs, all wasted, since the human line only began with brand new species designed 550 million years ago? Food? Was every single species he designed before the Cambrian, including all those that had no connection with humans and our food, part of the goal of designing humans and our food? Your theory about the Cambrian directly contradicts your theory about our descent from bacteria – unless you now wish to argue that the new species were NOT the precursors of humans, in which case, why did he bother to design them?

Immunity system complexity
DAVID: What is beyond you is the system to make antibodies works automatically by recognizing non-self and adding always the same killer proteins to the non-self. No extra details required.

dhw: First you agree that the details change, but they do so automatically, and now you say no extra details are required. So when a new invader arrives, you think the immune system produces exactly the same antibody as for every previous invader!

DAVID: No, each new antibody is conformed to attack the new invader recognizing the invader as such.

Thank you. New extra details are required.

dhw: Why do you think people fall ill or even die before the process produces the new antibodies to fight off the new invaders?

DAVID: Every person has an immune system, but some are very weak with poor and therefore deadly responses.

dhw: In other words, they fail to produce the new antibody which is required to fight off the new invader.

DAVID: You are so negative in your responses. No 'fail'. Weak response!!!! Poor new antibody levels.!!!!

So they fall ill and die, but it’s all positive: their system is weak and can’t produce the necessary new antibodies.

DAVID: […] The cells follow God's instructions to automatically make appropriate antibodies for each new non-self invader. One set of simple instructions. No reference library needed, but created for future reuse. Immune cells can build their own memory.

dhw: So now you agree that extra details (appropriate antibodies) are required, but although from birth onwards the cells build their own memory and are able to make a library of antibodies, there are no new volumes to add, because all we need is God to say: “Make appropriate antibodies for this new invader”. (Or can you tell us what other instructions he delivers without dabbling?) The cells automatically know exactly how to make the new antibody because no extra details are required beyond those it already has in the library which it builds up from birth onwards, as and when it creates new (but exactly the same) antibodies to fight off new invaders.

DAVID: You obviously don't believe my explanations of the immune system.

dhw: No, I don’t. I find them full of contradictions.

DAVID: I'll try again as you totally misunderstand: foreign invader supplies its own proteins to study. The cell recognizes them and adds killer proteins to a subset of the invader's makeup. Each antibody is therefore new and added to the library for future reference.

Now you’re talking sense. Each antibody is new, i.e. it adds new details and adds to the library of antibodies. And since you have informed us that once the system is in place, whereby cells are able to build up their own library without any intervention from your God, they act autonomously in working out what new details to add in order to defeat the new invader. There are no “instructions” for each and every antibody. There is only the process of autonomous recognition (God doesn’t do it for them) and autonomous, creative response (God doesn’t do it for them). How is this possible without thought?

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