Let's study ID (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, August 17, 2021, 10:21 (68 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: And once again you gloss over the concept, which you accepted above, that God can do anything He wants. God created the evolutionary history we know. Yes, it branches in all directions, so that is what He wanted on the way to creating humans. That is the exact concept about God you adamantly deny. Your main objection is to the concept of humans as very special and therefore a desired goal. All of this is a very connected theory which you slice into various parts that you illogically claim have no connections. It is all connected by accepting that God's works reflect His intentions.

dhw: Of course if he exists, he can do anything he wants and his works reflect his intentions. My objection is to the fact that if his one and only intention was to create humans and their food, as you claim, it makes no sense that he should also have wanted to create countless branches of life forms that had no connection with humans! Either humans were NOT his one and only intention, or if they were, there has to be a reason for all the countless other forms that had no connection with humans.

DAVID: You have decided to make my concept of God as singularly tunnel-visioned. It is a total distortion of my view of God. God works by evolving His goals as His works show, and I have previously demonstrated.

Once again you use plural goals, whereas your theory has always been that every life form was “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” and their food. For those who believe in God and who also believe in the theory of evolution, of course his works show that he used evolution for his goals. How does that come to mean that his one and only goal was humans and their food, when the vast majority of his “works” (you say he designed every life form, econiche, lifestyle, natural wonder) had no connection with humans?

DAVID: I view humans as His final goal in creation, giving them control of the Earth. But everything we see on Earth is obviously required and must be created before they arrive in dominance.
And later:
God has created what is absolutely required before humans appear.

Please explain why your God absolutely had to create all the extinct life forms and foods that had no connection with humans before he could create humans and their foods, which were his one and only purpose.

DAVID: You sneer at the need for food, why? Many of the current animals and plants serve our needs in many other ways besides food and you should recognize that. No need to list them. Plants serve the same food and other obvious purposes. (dhw's bold)

Yes, the “current ones”, but as you have said yourself and continue to ignore: “The current bush of food is NOW for humans NOW. There were smaller bushes in the PAST for PAST forms” and “Extinct life has no role in current time”. Please stop pretending that current necessities explain past necessities which had no connection with humans.

dhw: You cannot find any such reason, and so you continue to dodge the issue.

DAVID: There is no dodge in the statement above. Your objections are illogical inventions by distorting the view of God I have given over the years here. To briefly repeat, I see a very purposeful God who knows what He wants and creates it by evolving it.

If God exists, then that is precisely the God I would see. All of my alternative theories have him knowing what he wants and creating it by means of evolution, and all of them explain what you cannot explain: namely, the past existence of countless life forms that had no connection with humans.


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