Let's study ID (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, August 03, 2021, 10:18 (82 days ago) @ David Turell

The immune system
dhw: I propose that the immune system mirrors the process of speciation, whereby the cell communities recognize anything new and RESPOND to the new requirements, as opposed to your God doing a dabble before the new requirements are known. Speciation comes about when changes are made to existing cell structures as they RESPOND to new requirements.

DAVID: That only fits minor modifications within species, not the whale series with major changes in each mew stage.

dhw: It “fits” major modifications theoretically, since each stage in the whale series improves the whale’s chances of survival by creating a more efficient way to cope with the requirements of life in the water. Your version raises the question of why your all-knowing, all-powerful God didn’t perform all the operations straight away, since he knew they would one day be necessary. Your theoretical answer?

DAVID: God chose to evolve all living things in stages of development, which fits the history.

We agree that the history is that all living things developed in stages. It is your theory that your God chose to design each and every stage individually (although his one and only purpose was to design humans and their food). I asked WHY you think your all-knowing, all-powerful God chose this method, rather than design each species straight away, but you can’t give me a reason. You just expect me to accept your theory as a fact, and I have offered a number of alternative theistic explanations, all of which you accept as logical but reject because they offer a different view of God from your own.

DAVID: Can God what He wants or not? Your reply doesn't recognize the type of God I believe in. I don't dodge. I stick to my concept of God hand His abilities. I have always told you your objection is entirely illogical from my viewpoint.

dhw: Of course God – if he exists – can do what he wants. And you simply go on ignoring the totally illogical gap in your theory, which is that all he WANTED was humans and their food, but he designed vast numbers of now extinct life forms, econiches, lifestyles, strategies and natural wonders, the huge majority of which had no connection with humans and their food. And you admit that you have no idea why, and then you return to dodging the whole anomaly.

DAVID: Totally illogical. If God can do what He wants, He can evolve humans from bacteria can't He?

dhw: There you go again, ignoring both my answer (first bold) and the anomaly that makes your theory totally illogical (second bold).

DAVID: You constantly ignore the error in your illogical complaint. If 'all He wanted was humans', your complaint, that infers He should have directly done just that. But that is not history.

No, it’s not history, and that is why I ask you to provide a logical reason why he chose not to fulfil directly what you believe to have been his one and only reason for creating life.

DAVID: You are inferring a tunnel-visioned God, who could see nothing but humans.

But that is your tunnel vision. It is you who insist that his one and only purpose was humans plus their food! I have proposed different reasons for the vast bush of life, all of which you accept as being logical.

DAVID: You imagine weird Gods constantly. Thinking of God as having a goal of humans after periods of time is quite reasonable.

Thank you. That is one of my various explanations: that God learned from his experiences, and “after periods of time” had new ideas as he went along. What is weird about that?

DAVID: And you have never denied the observation that approaching eight billion humans requires a huge evolutionary bush of food supply.

Of course not. But that does not explain why your God individually designed vast numbers of now extinct life forms and their food which had no connection with humans and their food supply.

DAVID: Any thinking God could see that big brained humans would develop that type of huge population.

What does that have to do with your God designing vast numbers of now extinct life forms that had no connection with humans or their food supply?

DAVID: Do you see your tunnel vision of God?

No. I have offered several visions of your God and of evolution, all of which you agree fit in logically with the history. Only your tunnel vision (your all-powerful God’s only goal was humans plus food, and therefore he designed lots of life forms and foods that had no connection with humans and their food) remains inexplicable.

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