Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 10:05 (11 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: God can do it any way He wants. History records what happened. Live with it.

dhw: Of course if he exists, God can do what he wants. And clearly if all he wanted was humans and their food, then logically he could have directly created humans and their food.

DAVID: But He didn't!!! Accept the history God created.

It is you who refuse to accept the history! You insist that your God's only purpose was to create us and our food, but although he could have created humans and their food directly, he chose instead to directly design countless other life forms and foods that had no connection with humans and our food. Obvious conclusion: either we were NOT his only purpose, or he had to learn how to get what he wanted, or he did not directly design the countless other life forms.

DAVID: God does not have to be logical. The contradictions are all made up by your misunderstanding of how to look at God.

dhw: How do you know that yours is the only way to look at God? How do you know that God is not logical?

DAVID: All we know is God should be logical, but in each case He may differ from our thoughts, as you complain above.

I have no doubt that if God exists he is logical, as you have frequently said in the past though you have now backtracked. It is YOUR illogical thoughts, not his possible thoughts, that I complain about.

Immunity system complexity
QUOTES: “The only limiting thing here is our understanding of how the RNA is controlled by various regulatory programs within the cell.

"Using high-precision experiments, mathematical modeling, and artificial intelligence, Kinney aims to clarify these mysteries at the level of molecular biophysics— how the spliceosome reads the RNA sequence and makes its cutting decisions.”

DAVID: The obvious inference is that they are looking for tightly controlled processes, like all the cellular ones found so far.

Of course they are, but they don’t know the source of control, i.e. how the cells take their decisions.That is what Kinney calls the “mysteries”.

DAVID: Yes we do, the discussed editing system I presented.

The editing process is what we know. According to the article, we do not know what it is that makes the editorial decisions. That’s what they aim to find out. Whether the “level of molecular biophysics” will provide a complete answer we shall have to wait and see.

dhw: …according to you, in the case of invasion the cells themselves build up a library of responses with each new antibody adding a new volume, but they don’t build it up because your God has already preprogrammed them……

DAVID: Yes He has programmed them!!! [See later.)To each invader the cells automatically recognize the invader (non-self) And add by instructions proteins to some of the invaders proteins which modify or kill the invader, creating the new anti body for the library.

dhw: You are again describing the general process, but each antibody is new and requires a new creation which is then added to the library.[…] You have said explicitly that [God] does not dabble, and so you are left with no alternative: the cells make their own decisions. (But your God may have given them the ABILITY to do so.)

DAVID: Please read what I write: Antibody creation is always the same automatic process: recognize the invader and add the same killer or modifier proteins. Non-self: if its not me it is foreign. All automatic as presented in medical text books.

I have just said that you are describing the general process (bolded), and so you merely repeat the general process, shove in the word “automatic” (as if recognition itself was not an act of cognition) and leave out the question of how cells produce a NEW antibody without thought.

dhw: Please tell us precisely what these “instructions” consist of, if they are not as I have described above. And if they already give the complete “recipe” (= “preprogrammed”) for the new antibody, what exactly is added to the library?

DAVID: A new antibody is automatically made as described above and added to the library.

Thank you. The library does not already contain the new antibodies (so they are not programmed – see bold above). A new antibody is different from former antibodies, so how can it be made "automatically", i.e. without thought?

DAVID: The immune cells always follow the same instructions to make antibodies, no variation except the finished product is new because each new invader is different. Thus a library is built for future reference if the new invader returns as they do.

Thank you again. Exactly as I have described […]: Your God apparently says: “Recognize the invader and make new antibodies.” That's all. There is no variation in the PROCESS but, hallelujah, the PRODUCT is new, and is added to the library. You say your God does not intervene, the "recipe" must be new or it wouldn't be added to the library, and so how do the cells work out what is required to construct the NEW antibody to fight the NEW invader if they can’t think?


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