Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, October 17, 2021, 09:04 (893 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: We do not know how many wishes God had.

dhw: Then please stop telling us that his one and only goal from the very start was to design humans plus their food, and all other life forms etc. were “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus their food. (And please don’t mention plural “goals” or “wishes” unless you can tell us what they might have been.)

DAVID: God evolved our reality, with many stages along the way. We are His end point, and for some strange reason you won 't accept that concept, as Adler and I do.

But that is not the point at issue, and you know it. Why do you persist in ignoring the vocabulary plus those parts of your theory that you yourself cannot explain? “End point” does not mean one and only goal from the very beginning (see bold above). God, according to your theory, also “evolved” (by which you mean designed) every other reality with many stages along the way, and the vast majority of those realities had no connection with humans. So what was their point if humans were his only goal? (And I'd better add the usual question: if you now think humans plus their food were NOT his only goal, please tell us what other goals you think he may have had?)

dhw: You have also agreed that my different explanations make perfect sense, but you reject their logic because they differ from your own illogical theory about God’s purpose and method of fulfilling that purpose!

DAVID: The concept of God rules how one thinks about Him. I reject your individual concept.

I do not have an “individual” concept. I have offered you alternative theistic concepts which explain the WHOLE of life’s history, and two of these even allow for the specialness of humans and individual design of all species (i.e. experimentation and new ideas), while the third is the proposal of a free-for-all. You admit that all three fit in logically with life’s history. All three allow for a purposeful God who knows what he is doing – though you obviously consider that setting out to learn something new is “namby-pamby”. Your own concept used to be that your God was logical, but now apparently he doesn’t have to be. That seems to be the only way you can defend your theory!

Immunity system complexity
DAVID: Transplant rejection problems must show you our cells know 'same' from foreign.

dhw: There is no disagreement over the fact that our cells recognize what is foreign. The disagreement lies in the fact that you do not accept that such recognition is a sign of cognizance not of automaticity.

DAVID: That cognizance is automatic is what I was taught.

Then perhaps you should consult your dictionary instead of believing your teacher. Cognizance: 1. knowledge or understanding of something. 2. Take cognizance of something: to understand something and consider it when you take action or make a decision. (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English). Many definitions even include the word “awareness”. Look it up for yourself.

DAVID: The information for the standard cell production of antibodies is in the genome, and as yet a mystery.
and
DAVID: The brain entry today shows you how difficult it is to know exactly how any process of controls works. [dhw's bolds]

dhw: If we don’t know how the processes of control work, why do you keep insisting that they are automatic, following some vague programme or instructions from your God? Your constant repetition of “automatic” merely glosses over the fact that recognition of the NEW invader and the production of a NEW antibody require thought, and what is added to the library is not the same as everything else that is already in the library.

DAVID: It doesn't require thought, just automatic recognition of 'foreign' and addition of a standardized addition of killer/modifier proteins. Pure medical school teaching.

If nobody knows how the processes of control work, how can medical schoolteachers know that recognition of ‘foreign’ invaders and the design of new antibodies are automatic, let alone that they are the product of your God’s preprogramming and instructions? In which monastery did you do your medical training?:-)


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